Spiritual Antinomianism.
What is this? Why would it be important for us to consider? Consider the following discussion.
"...Perfect love does cast out fear (1 John 4:18 ), but this is no open door for lawlessness or the abandonment of the law of God found in scripture as the standard of righteousness. "The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom" (Psalm 110:11; Prov. 1:7). We are not given a license to sin that "grace may increase: (Rom. 6:1). Jesus tells us how we can know if we are loving Him: "If you love me, you will keep my commandments: (John 14:15). Remember, the law is not the way we are justified by God. The law is, however, an objective standard to which we conform our thoughts, words and deeds. Paul described love in Romans 13:8-10 in terms of obedience to the law. One way you know if you are loving your neighbor is by looking at the law. Paul writes in another place that through faith "we establish the law" (Rom. 3:31).
But Lindsey is not officially lawless. He tells us that "the answer to a righteous and obedient life is to walk in the Spirit and walk by faith in His ability to produce God's righteousness and obedience to His laws within you." What are these "laws within you"? Where did these laws come from? Lindsey is correct in telling us that it cannot be the conscience, for conscience is not a "reliable standard of conduct" because "it can be easily seared." Rather, it is immediate guidance of the Holy Spirit. Lindsey even goes beyond traditional dispensational theology by never telling the Christian that at least he is obligated to keep New Testament commands over against Old Testament commands. Greg Bahnsen describes this as "Spiritual antinomianism," a view that teaches
'that the Christian needs guidance for holy living expected by God, but it would deny that such guidance comes from a written (or verbally defined) code. Ethical direction is rather found in the internal promptings of the Holy Spirit...Quite expectedly, such thinking leads quickly to subjectivism in Christian ethics, with each man doing whatever he claims "the Spirit" has prompted him to do-despite the fact that it conflicts with what the Spirit has prompted others to do and (worse) with what the Spirit has revealed once-for-all in the Scriptures. The Bible teaches us that the Spirit works through the word, not speaking or directing from Himself (John 16:13-15). The Spirit works to fulfill the law in us (Rom. 8:4-9). The abiding of the Spirit in believers brings obedience to Gods commandments 91 John 3:24).'
Denying an Objective Standard
Some positive confession preachers unwittingly have opened themselves to the subjectivism of the human potential movement, just as Dave Hunt and others have opened themselves to the pessimism that abounds among the humanists. Why? Because neither group has had an objective standard to measure righteousness. Rushdoony makes this observation: "To deny the permanence of God's law is to fall...ultimately into Manichaeanism." Dispensationalists have been telling Christians for over a century and a half that the law of God as found in the Old Testament and the gospels no longer applies to the church today. So, where does the church get its law? What objective law-word does the church have for the State, meaning civil government?
For some, law is based on feelings. The individual has internal promptings that guide him. He looks to himself for direction, to the movement of hte Holy Spirit on his or her spirit. Law becomes subjective. What's right for one person might not be right for someone else. The end of such philosophy is the old slogan "If it feels good, do it." Or "do you own thing." It should not surprise us that some have turned to the subjectivism of the "positive thinking" movement: think and grow rich, the power of positive thinking, etc. Furthermore, with this internal-only view of the law the church can not address the world on social issues." (The Reduction of Christianity, pp.87,88 )
A longish quote I know. I hope I didn't tire some of you and you muddled your way through it.
So what do you all think. Is there an objective standard of right and wrong in the scriptures or are we left to subjectivism to guide us? I see this as a major issue in the present church society. One that needs to be discussed and not ignored with a few scripture quotes.
We are saved by faith and believing in Christ. We are justified by the atonement of Christ. Then we are called to walk in obedience. I think we all agree with these basic statements.
But obedience to what? God's revealed will recorded in the scripture? Or our own subjective feelings of what the Spirit is leading us to do? Or possible a synthesis of both the objectivity of the scriptures coupled with the leading of the Spirit to "walk ye in it"?
The Law destroyed?
Many today seem to think that the whole Law has been destroyed, that it has no impact at all to the believer in Christ. That no Christian has any obligation to God to keep it in any way. Many today teach that if one tries to reference the Law in any way involving our lives in Christ, that they are returning to Judaism or becoming legalistic. I think that in Gary and Peter's book, The Reduction of Christianity, they bring up some very valid points that we need to consider as we think about the Law and its function in the Church today.
I would like to take the quote I gave and look at it a little bit closer. Here is the first part of that quote.
"...Perfect love does cast out fear (1 John 4:18 ), but this is no open door for lawlessness or the abandonment of the law of God found in scripture as the standard of righteousness. "The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom" (Psalm 110:11; Prov. 1:7). We are not given a license to sin that "grace may increase: (Rom. 6:1). Jesus tells us how we can know if we are loving Him: "If you love me, you will keep my commandments: (John 14:15). Remember, the law is not the way we are justified by God. The law is, however, an objective standard to which we conform our thoughts, words and deeds. Paul described love in Romans 13:8-10 in terms of obedience to the law. One way you know if you are loving your neighbor is by looking at the law. Paul writes in another place that through faith "we establish the law" (Rom. 3:31).
"...law of God found in scripture as the standard of righteousness."
Here I think is a starting point for our discussion. Is the Law of God His standard of righteousness? Which brings us to a more basic question, what is the Law?
Foundationally the Law is the Ten Commandments which God directly gave to Moses to form the basis of his covenant with the nation of Israel. It is recorded that God did not just communicate these ten commandments to Moses to repeat, but instead in a supernatural way, inscribed these ten commandments on two tablets of stone, "with his finger".
Exodus 24:12 And Jehovah said to Moses, Come up to Me to the mountain, and be there. And I will give to you the tablets of stone, and the Law, and the commandments which I have written, to teach them.
Exodus 31:18 And when He finished speaking with him on Mount Sinai, He gave to Moses the two tablets of the testimony, tablets of stone, written by the finger of God.
The Law encompasses alot more than just these ten commandments. But these ten are the basis for all the rest of the Law. The Jews commonly refer to the rest of the Law as "the teachings." Showing the idea that God gave to Moses more detail in how to apply the ten commandments to their whole lives.
The ten commandments and the "teachings" are considered to be the standard of righteousness that God demands of his covenant people.
Most of the rest of Exodus contains the teachings of righteousness based on the ten commandments. This is the most basic part of the Law. The other parts of the law form the rules, regulations and practices of the tabernacle and temple, regarding the sacrifices, festivals, and feasts as well as the special rules for the Levites and priests.
The ten commandments and the accompanying teachings are the standard of righteousness revealed by God for his covenant people.
"...Perfect love does cast out fear (1 John 4:18 ), but this is no open door for lawlessness or the abandonment of the law of God found in scripture as the standard of righteousness. "The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom" (Psalm 110:11; Prov. 1:7). We are not given a license to sin that "grace may increase: (Rom. 6:1). Jesus tells us how we can know if we are loving Him: "If you love me, you will keep my commandments: (John 14:15). Remember, the law is not the way we are justified by God. The law is, however, an objective standard to which we conform our thoughts, words and deeds. Paul described love in Romans 13:8-10 in terms of obedience to the law. One way you know if you are loving your neighbor is by looking at the law. Paul writes in another place that through faith "we establish the law" (Rom. 3:31).
The phrase I would like to consider today is: "the law is not the way we are justified by God."
By the works of the law is no man justified. I will deal in greater detail what these "works of the law" are later. I would like to address the total sentence first, taking aim at the word justification.
What did Paul mean by his phrases? Lets look at a passage from Romans where Paul gives us this statement. I think we will stay here for a few posts exploring what Paul taught about the Law.
Rom 3:20-31
20 Because by works of Law not one of all flesh will be justified before Him, for through Law is full knowledge of sin. (Psa. 143:2)
21 But now a righteousness of God has been revealed apart from Law, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, 22 even the righteousness of God through faith of Jesus Christ toward all and upon all those believing; for there is no difference, 23 for all sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 being justified freely by His grace through the redemption in Christ Jesus, 25 whom God set forth as a propitiation through faith in His blood, as a demonstration of His righteousness through the passing over of the sins that had taken place before, in the forbearance of God, 26 for a demonstration of His righteousness in the present time, for His being just and justifying the one that is of the faith of Jesus.
27 Then where is the boasting? It was excluded. Through what law? Of works? No, but through a Law of faith. 28 Then we conclude a man to be justified by faith without works of Law.
29 Or is He the God of Jews only, and not also of the nations? Yes, of the nations also, 30 since it is one God who will justify circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith. 31 Then is the Law annulled through faith? Let it not be! But we establish Law.
Paul is very clear, that not one work of the law is any man justified. Justification comes from God's work, not man's work.
Justification and righteousness are synonyms in this passage. Righteousness and justification come to us as we enter in Christ by faith in his redemptive work.
Paul even makes the comparison between justification by the works of the law to being justified because of our faith in Christ, calling faith in Christ, a law of faith.
Paul here is not making a new law to replace the ten commandments. Not at all. He is not saying that a new law is part of the new covenant. He is being a Rabbi, and making a comparison, like the Rabbis did in Proverbs so much of the time, comparing this to that. Comparing the righteous under the Mosaic covenant, doing the works as commanded under the Law of that covenant with the faith of those who trust in Christ.
As others in this forum have well pointed out before, we enter into God's justification by faith in Christ, and not by doing any works of the law. And if we have entered into Christ by faith and are justified through our faith, then too should we continue to walk in that self same faith.
But does faith in Christ nullify the Law and Christ's commandments in it? I did already say this in my previous post, did you miss it? It was the pre-incarnate Word of God that gave the Law to Moses. The very same Word of God that was the creator in the beginning. The very same Word of God that became flesh and tabernacled among us. This same Word of God, spoke with Moses from the burning bush. And the same Word of God met Moses on the top of Mount Sinai speaking with him for 40 days, giving him the tablets of the Law and all the accompanying teaching. Is the Law of the Word of God, nullified by faith in the Word of God? Not according to Paul. According to Paul the law is established in us by our faith in the Word of God. (Lest you misunderstand me, the Word of God is Jesus the Christ, not the writings of the Bible. When I mean the scriptures I write "word of God", lower case "word".) The Law is not nullified, but still living and active as we shall see.
More to come. To enter into a discussion on this article as I form it, join me at MeetChristians.com
Wednesday, May 19, 2010
Saturday, March 06, 2010
Spiritual Starvation
I read an article by Darin Hufford on FaceBook FBN about spiritual starvation that rung true to me, the full article is here,
Here is an excerpt from that article, what I think is the heart of what Darin is sharing:
"The one common denominator that I’ve noticed in this vast religious landscape of Christian beliefs is that they are all full of hurting and hungry people. Not just hungry people - starving people! Over the years I’ve watched different Christian “Fads” come and go. I’ve
seen twitching, barking, laughing, shaking, falling, hopping and dancing. I have found that you can always gauge the level of spiritual starvation in people by what they’ll ultimately accept as food. What will they put in their spiritual mouths, chew up, swallow, and call food? I do not believe that there has been a time in my entire life quite like the one we are living in now. There has been a famine in the Church for so long that people are showing signs of extreme spiritual malnutrition. Christians today remind me of the little starving Ethiopian children we see on the “Feed the Hungry” commercials. Their spiritual bellies are swollen from a lack of nutrition, their bones are showing through their skin, and there are flies buzzing around their faces.
Here is an excerpt from that article, what I think is the heart of what Darin is sharing:
"The one common denominator that I’ve noticed in this vast religious landscape of Christian beliefs is that they are all full of hurting and hungry people. Not just hungry people - starving people! Over the years I’ve watched different Christian “Fads” come and go. I’ve
seen twitching, barking, laughing, shaking, falling, hopping and dancing. I have found that you can always gauge the level of spiritual starvation in people by what they’ll ultimately accept as food. What will they put in their spiritual mouths, chew up, swallow, and call food? I do not believe that there has been a time in my entire life quite like the one we are living in now. There has been a famine in the Church for so long that people are showing signs of extreme spiritual malnutrition. Christians today remind me of the little starving Ethiopian children we see on the “Feed the Hungry” commercials. Their spiritual bellies are swollen from a lack of nutrition, their bones are showing through their skin, and there are flies buzzing around their faces.At this point I believe that most Christians, out of sheer desperation, will eat just about anything that’s given to them. Gone are the days of meat and potatoes. Anything will do for today, as long as it fills the stomach. I watch sincere-hearted people running from dumpster to dumpster eager to find just a scrap of whatever to ease their spiritual hunger pains. People will literally travel hundreds of miles to attend a conference where supposedly the fire of God is being poured out. They’ll wait in line for four hours and give away money that they don’t even have, only to leave blaming themselves for not having received the fire they had heard so much about."
For those of us who are in the wilderness presently, manna is good, nutritious, but it isn't a three course meal and God never intended it to be. We can become like the children of Israel and yearn for meat, onions, garlic. We can get hungry for real food, and go to those places where we used to go to find food. We yearn to go back to Egypt, where we had real food, not just this manna bread and cooked manna...:bo-manna bread..." (as Keith sang).
We start to think that getting some food is better than eating only manna. We start to think that maybe we were wrong, and misunderstood what was really going on. But were we really getting fed in those franchised fast food big boxes? Consider the difference between dining at a McDonalds franchise, day after day, week after week, compared to eating fresh wholesome foods cooked well at home.
God does have a meal prepared for us. A feast set for his family. His full intention is to bring us into a land of milk and honey. Fields of grain. Vineyards rich with grapes. Olive trees dripping with oil. Trees full of fruit. All there for us to use to create great nutritious home cooked meals. Meals to eat and feast in his presence, to share with the rest of the family, to share with all who are hungry.
God has given us a thirst, a hunger for what is his. We find a true satisfaction of this hunger when we are where he wants us to be. Whether it is with manna, for a time in the wilderness. Or in a franchise once in a while. But mostly when we share the goodness of the Lord from the rich goodness he gives us.
Wednesday, January 27, 2010
The Mark of the Beast, What is it?
On a Christian board I post on, there is an ongoing discussion regarding the mark of the beast referenced in Rev. 13:17; 14:9,11; 16:2; 19:20; and 20:4.
There are many ideas today as to what this mark might be. Many look to modern technology and posit the idea that the mark is one of these technologies. I have read of tattoos, both visible and invisible, perhaps like a bar code or some symbol of the beast. An implanted chip is very popular today, since the advent of that technology. Biometric scans of the eye (in the forehead) and the hand or finger (in the right hand) have all been suggested as possibly being the mark of the beast ruler. Some claim it is so in most certain of terms.
But what is this mark? How would the original receivers of this letter from John regarding the Revelation of Jesus have understood the mark of the beast?
One of the truths I have learned in understanding scripture is that there are many quotes and allusions to past scriptures in the more modern scriptures. Through out the scriptures we call the New Testament are many of these quotes and allusions. Also that there is a commonality to prophecies. Biblical prophecies often use the same or similar language to express the same ideas.
To the receivers of this letter of Revelation, they would have understood the mark in light of past scriptures. They only had the scriptures we call the Old Testament. They also had many letters from different of the apostles and teachers, some of which we have in our canon of scriptures we call the New Testament.
When we search for similar ideas in the Old Testament scriptures we find this same idea of a mark or sign upon the hand or forehead to show allegiance to a kingdom rule.
In Exodus 13 we find just such a reference.
1 The LORD said to Moses, 2 "Consecrate to me every firstborn male. The first offspring of every womb among the Israelites belongs to me, whether man or animal."
3 Then Moses said to the people, "Commemorate this day, the day you came out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery, because the LORD brought you out of it with a mighty hand. Eat nothing containing yeast. 4 Today, in the month of Abib, you are leaving. 5 When the LORD brings you into the land of the Canaanites, Hittites, Amorites, Hivites and Jebusites—the land he swore to your forefathers to give you, a land flowing with milk and honey—you are to observe this ceremony in this month: 6 For seven days eat bread made without yeast and on the seventh day hold a festival to the LORD. 7 Eat unleavened bread during those seven days; nothing with yeast in it is to be seen among you, nor shall any yeast be seen anywhere within your borders. 8 On that day tell your son, 'I do this because of what the LORD did for me when I came out of Egypt.' 9 This observance will be for you like a sign on your hand and a reminder on your forehead that the law of the LORD is to be on your lips. For the LORD brought you out of Egypt with his mighty hand. 10 You must keep this ordinance at the appointed time year after year.
11 "After the LORD brings you into the land of the Canaanites and gives it to you, as he promised on oath to you and your forefathers, 12 you are to give over to the LORD the first offspring of every womb. All the firstborn males of your livestock belong to the LORD. 13 Redeem with a lamb every firstborn donkey, but if you do not redeem it, break its neck. Redeem every firstborn among your sons.
14 "In days to come, when your son asks you, 'What does this mean?' say to him, 'With a mighty hand the LORD brought us out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery. 15 When Pharaoh stubbornly refused to let us go, the LORD killed every firstborn in Egypt, both man and animal. This is why I sacrifice to the LORD the first male offspring of every womb and redeem each of my firstborn sons.' 16 And it will be like a sign on your hand and a symbol on your forehead that the LORD brought us out of Egypt with his mighty hand."
God said to Israel that their keeping the observances he commanded them would be LIKE a sign on your hand and a symbol on your forehead. In many of the religions of Canaan they had the religious observance of marking their hands and heads with temporary henna tattoos. Some in places still follow this custom today.
God elsewhere command Israel to not participate in tattooing, again directly referring to the religious idolatrous practices of the nations around Israel. God here is saying that keeping the observances is the mark that Israel is in covenant with God.
The assemblies that received the letter of the Revelation of Jesus Christ would have known about this reference and understood the mark of the beast in the light of it. They would have seen the mark of the beast to be keeping the ways and observances of the beast kingdom. Keeping the ways of those in covenant with the beast ruler.
In their day one was required by Roman law to sacrifice to the Roman gods. On a regular schedule governmental sacrifices were made with all the citizens of a town in attendance. It was considered treason to not participate in this idolatrous practice.
A believer could be tried and convicted of treason for not sacrificing to the Roman gods. By not participating in this Roman governmental idolatrous practice, they would be rejecting the mark of the beast nation of the Roman Emperor/god. By not participating in this Roman observation they would not be allowed to buy or sell, as all commerce was done under the eye of Roman soldiers and magistrates, and with the Roman standard, a idol of their emperor/god standing in the midst of the markets. To buy and sell in the Roman empire was also to make obeisance to the god/emperor, the beast of Revelations.
One of the main ways that Rome assured that all were under Roman control, was that all buying and selling had to be conducted in Roman coin. In each marketplace was set up an exchange, where the coin of the areas around a town were exchanged for the coin of the realm. This exchange included a tax and often an extra charge tacked on by the moneychanger. Again the Roman standard was right there next to the moneychanger, an idol to be worshipped in the course of the money exchange transaction. If you didn't worship the idol, you didn't get to exchange your money, and you didn't get to buy and sell in that marketplace. If caught buying and selling in coin other than Roman, you again would be guilty of treason against the empire.
There are many ideas today as to what this mark might be. Many look to modern technology and posit the idea that the mark is one of these technologies. I have read of tattoos, both visible and invisible, perhaps like a bar code or some symbol of the beast. An implanted chip is very popular today, since the advent of that technology. Biometric scans of the eye (in the forehead) and the hand or finger (in the right hand) have all been suggested as possibly being the mark of the beast ruler. Some claim it is so in most certain of terms.
But what is this mark? How would the original receivers of this letter from John regarding the Revelation of Jesus have understood the mark of the beast?
One of the truths I have learned in understanding scripture is that there are many quotes and allusions to past scriptures in the more modern scriptures. Through out the scriptures we call the New Testament are many of these quotes and allusions. Also that there is a commonality to prophecies. Biblical prophecies often use the same or similar language to express the same ideas.
To the receivers of this letter of Revelation, they would have understood the mark in light of past scriptures. They only had the scriptures we call the Old Testament. They also had many letters from different of the apostles and teachers, some of which we have in our canon of scriptures we call the New Testament.
When we search for similar ideas in the Old Testament scriptures we find this same idea of a mark or sign upon the hand or forehead to show allegiance to a kingdom rule.
In Exodus 13 we find just such a reference.
1 The LORD said to Moses, 2 "Consecrate to me every firstborn male. The first offspring of every womb among the Israelites belongs to me, whether man or animal."
3 Then Moses said to the people, "Commemorate this day, the day you came out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery, because the LORD brought you out of it with a mighty hand. Eat nothing containing yeast. 4 Today, in the month of Abib, you are leaving. 5 When the LORD brings you into the land of the Canaanites, Hittites, Amorites, Hivites and Jebusites—the land he swore to your forefathers to give you, a land flowing with milk and honey—you are to observe this ceremony in this month: 6 For seven days eat bread made without yeast and on the seventh day hold a festival to the LORD. 7 Eat unleavened bread during those seven days; nothing with yeast in it is to be seen among you, nor shall any yeast be seen anywhere within your borders. 8 On that day tell your son, 'I do this because of what the LORD did for me when I came out of Egypt.' 9 This observance will be for you like a sign on your hand and a reminder on your forehead that the law of the LORD is to be on your lips. For the LORD brought you out of Egypt with his mighty hand. 10 You must keep this ordinance at the appointed time year after year.
11 "After the LORD brings you into the land of the Canaanites and gives it to you, as he promised on oath to you and your forefathers, 12 you are to give over to the LORD the first offspring of every womb. All the firstborn males of your livestock belong to the LORD. 13 Redeem with a lamb every firstborn donkey, but if you do not redeem it, break its neck. Redeem every firstborn among your sons.
14 "In days to come, when your son asks you, 'What does this mean?' say to him, 'With a mighty hand the LORD brought us out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery. 15 When Pharaoh stubbornly refused to let us go, the LORD killed every firstborn in Egypt, both man and animal. This is why I sacrifice to the LORD the first male offspring of every womb and redeem each of my firstborn sons.' 16 And it will be like a sign on your hand and a symbol on your forehead that the LORD brought us out of Egypt with his mighty hand."
God said to Israel that their keeping the observances he commanded them would be LIKE a sign on your hand and a symbol on your forehead. In many of the religions of Canaan they had the religious observance of marking their hands and heads with temporary henna tattoos. Some in places still follow this custom today.
God elsewhere command Israel to not participate in tattooing, again directly referring to the religious idolatrous practices of the nations around Israel. God here is saying that keeping the observances is the mark that Israel is in covenant with God.
The assemblies that received the letter of the Revelation of Jesus Christ would have known about this reference and understood the mark of the beast in the light of it. They would have seen the mark of the beast to be keeping the ways and observances of the beast kingdom. Keeping the ways of those in covenant with the beast ruler.
In their day one was required by Roman law to sacrifice to the Roman gods. On a regular schedule governmental sacrifices were made with all the citizens of a town in attendance. It was considered treason to not participate in this idolatrous practice.
A believer could be tried and convicted of treason for not sacrificing to the Roman gods. By not participating in this Roman governmental idolatrous practice, they would be rejecting the mark of the beast nation of the Roman Emperor/god. By not participating in this Roman observation they would not be allowed to buy or sell, as all commerce was done under the eye of Roman soldiers and magistrates, and with the Roman standard, a idol of their emperor/god standing in the midst of the markets. To buy and sell in the Roman empire was also to make obeisance to the god/emperor, the beast of Revelations.
One of the main ways that Rome assured that all were under Roman control, was that all buying and selling had to be conducted in Roman coin. In each marketplace was set up an exchange, where the coin of the areas around a town were exchanged for the coin of the realm. This exchange included a tax and often an extra charge tacked on by the moneychanger. Again the Roman standard was right there next to the moneychanger, an idol to be worshipped in the course of the money exchange transaction. If you didn't worship the idol, you didn't get to exchange your money, and you didn't get to buy and sell in that marketplace. If caught buying and selling in coin other than Roman, you again would be guilty of treason against the empire.
Sunday, January 17, 2010
The New Jerusalem
What is the New Jerusalem?
When will it be established or has it already been established?
When will it come to earth?
Where will it come to earth?
Who is the city?
Let us consider the passage of Revelations 21 and see what it says. Perhaps we can understand it without our preconceived ideas of eschatology. I know its hard, its taken me almost 30 years to unlearn what I learned in my first 4 years in Christ.
When I read this passage I stop to think, what did this mean to the intended audience?Remember this book of revelation was addressed to the existing churches in Asia Minor. The time frame given to them as to when these things would happen was "soon", not thousands of years in the future, nor some future generations, but soon to them. The call to the churches was to be prepared, be ready to stand firm in the faith, be an overcomer. This is what I read, and what I now accept to be the full truth. No twisting of words and definitions, just a plain, simple reading of what was written.
Lets look now at what this city is. Two allegories are used in this passage. One is a city, the other is a bride. This is not a physical city that is the bride of Christ. That makes no sense at all. A stone city, set on foundations of gem stones, with gates made of pearl being a bride of God? Since this makes no sense, and since this revelation comes from Jesus himself, then it must mean something. Which of course it does.
The city is a representation, an allusion, an allegory of what the bride is like. It represents the functioning relationship of the bridegroom with the bride. It represents facets of the brides character. It represents God's work in obtaining the bride for his Son to marry. Many things are represented here, some I may not have thought about yet. Lets look at the description of the city, the New Jerusalem.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The New Jerusalem comes down from Heaven and God.
Rev 21
And I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth passed away, and the sea no longer is.
And I, John, saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of Heaven from God, having been prepared as a bride, having been adorned for her Husband.
And I heard a great voice out of Heaven, saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God with men! And He will tabernacle with them, and they will be His people, and God Himself will be with them as their God. And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes. And death shall be no longer, nor mourning, nor outcry, nor will there be pain any more; for the first things passed away.
Here John describes what is being shown to him in this vision. A new heaven and a new earth, with no sea, can mean many things. It definitely means a great change in the state of things. In the Old Testament this same language is used for the change of a kingdom. So this can represent the change from the kingdom age ruled by the Mosaic Law and temple practice to the kingdom age of grace in and ruled by Christ Jesus.
Then John sees the New Jerusalem, lets look at what John tells us about this city.
1. It comes down from heaven.
2. It is coming down from God
3. It has been prepared as a bride is prepared for her husband.
Here is a most interesting fact, it correctly identifies who and what this city is. John hears a voice coming to him from where the city came from, down out of heaven from God. This voice of God says,
1. "Behold, the tabernacle of God with men!"
2. "And He will tabernacle with them, and they will be His people, and "
3. "God Himself will be with them as their God."
4. "And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes."
5." And death shall be no longer, nor mourning, nor outcry, nor will there be pain any more; for the first things passed away."
The city is the tabernacle of God with men. The first tabernacle, then the temple of Solomon, then the temple of Herod were in the past times, the tabernacle of God with men. He dwelt in those tabernacles, his glory rested upon the mercy seat in the holy of holies in those tabernacles. But a change has taken place, a great change, like to the heavens and earth being rebuilt, as they were in creation. A new order has taken place. God will no longer dwell in houses made with the hands of men, but instead he will dwell in this new tabernacle, this new city of Jerusalem, this bride of Christ. This city, bride, tabernacle is where God dwells with men, this bride/city/tabernacle is a people whose God is God (YahVeh).
Can you see? This passage is not talking about a real physical city, it is talking about the people of God and his relationship with them. This is new order, a new age, no not that New Age which is all the rage among some who think themselves spiritual, but a true new age. The age of Moses and the children of Abraham is over. God's people are now a new people.
The Old Jerusalem is to be destroyed, the old tabernacle to be done away with, the old people to be replaced and a New Jerusalem made by God comes down from heaven, this city represents a new people created by God in Christ Jesus, with in these people God dwells as in a tabernacle. All things are in deed made new!
The one sitting on the throne speaks. And the One sitting on the throne said, Behold! I make all things new. And He says to me, Write, because these Words are faithful and true. And He said to me, It is done! I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the Ending.
To the one thirsting, I will freely give of the fountain of the Water of Life. The one overcoming will inherit all things, and I will be God to him, and he will be the son to Me. But for the cowardly and unbelieving, and those having become foul, and murderers, and fornicators, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all the lying ones, their part will be in the Lake burning with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.
See the enthroned Christ Jesus clearly says that he makes all things new. The old order is out, the ways taught by Moses in the Law has been done away with. No longer will sacrifices be made in the temple. No longer will the glory of God be present in the holy of holies, no longer will the priests do their bloody work. That age is over, all is new.
A new order has been instituted by the one on the throne. An angel shows John the bride, the wife of the Lamb, the city.
And one of the seven angels came to me, he having the seven bowls being filled with the seven last plagues, and spoke with me, saying, Come, I will show you the bride, the wife of the Lamb.
And he carried me in spirit onto a great and high mountain, and showed me the great city, holy Jerusalem, coming down out of Heaven from God, having the glory of God.
And its light was like a very precious stone, as a jasper stone, being clear as crystal, and having a great and high wall, having twelve gates, and twelve angels at the gates and names having been inscribed, which are of the twelve tribes of the sons of Israel.
From the east, three gates; from the north, three gates; from the south, three gates; and from the west, three gates. And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.
Again John sees this city coming down from heaven, from God. This shows that this work has nothing to do with the works of men, but is solely the work of God. This is not a man made religion, or religious work. No man conceived of this work, no, this is part of God's creation work, part of his eternal plan. In eternity past he conceived of this bride, this city. It came down from heaven because this is where it has dwelt, in the heart of God since before the start of creation.
This bride was planned from eternity past, before the foundations of the world, just as the Lamb was slain from the foundation of the world. This has always been God's plan. Remember we have said that the city represents ideas about the bride, who is the people of God in Christ Jesus.
The city's walls are crystal clear. The light of the city shines through them. Being crystal clear speaks of the purity of the bride and the way she shows forth the light that comes from within her. Later we see that the lamb himself is that light. So the bride, (people) show forth the glory, the light of the Lamb who rules within her (them).
In this city's walls are twelve gates, each one named for the twelve tribes of Israel. This represents the way of salvation that was prepared by the work of God in the twelve tribes of Israel. For it was his plan in the choosing of Abraham to bring forth a great tribe, that would then be used to bring forth God's plan of salvation to the whole world. The twelve children of Jacob/Israel were the way that God chose to bring salvation to the world. He used them to represent the sinfulness of men, to shadow salvation in the sacrifices, to act as a wife to him, until the proper time, when he would bring forth the bride he had chosen from eternity past.
And he speaking with me had a golden reed, that he may measure the city, and its gates, and its wall.
The twelve gates are three on each wall, facing each of the four cardinal directions, north, south, east, west.
This represents that the way of salvation is open to all people in every corner of the earth. And the gates are open, not closed, all many freely enter into it, except those who are "profaning may not at all enter into it, or any making an abomination or a lie;" these are kept outside by the angels stationed at each gate.
Only "the ones having been written in the Book of Life of the Lamb" may enter, as we shall read at the end of this passage.
Also notice that the city has twelve foundations, each after the twelve apostles of Jesus. This shows that the people, the bride is founded on the teaching of the twelve apostles. The city described further.
And the city lies four cornered, even its length as much as the width also. And he measured the city with the reed at twelve thousand stadia; its length and width and height are equal. And he measured its wall, a hundred and forty four cubits, a measure of a man, which is of an angel.
And the structure of its wall was jasper; and the city was pure gold, like pure glass.
And the foundation of the wall of the city having been adorned with every precious stone: The first foundation, jasper; the second, sapphire; the third, chalcedony; the fourth, emerald; the fifth, sardonyx; the sixth, sardius; the seventh, chrysolite; the eighth, beryl; the ninth, topaz; the tenth, chrysoprasus; the eleventh, hyacinth; the twelfth, amethyst.
And the twelve gates were twelve pearls; respectively each one of the gates was of one pearl. And the street of the city was pure gold, as transparent glass.
This city measures as perfect cube. I'm not sure what the measurement represents, but the cube is a perfect geometric structure, having four equal sides, with length, width and height all being the same. To me this speaks of the perfection of the saints, a perfection made by God.
Again we see that the walls are made of pure jasper, or crystal, also pure gold like glass. Gold is an interesting metal, it can be made so thin that you can see through it, it can be made a clear as glass. And gold is one metal that never corrodes. As such it is considered the most noble of the noble metals.
The foundation stones are all gemstones. The same gemstones as in the ephod of the priests. Each stone represents a tribe of Israel, as well as the twelve apostles. Again this represents the earthly foundation of salvation being found in Israel and taught by the apostles.
These gems and the gold also represent something else, the bride price of Christ. Within the marriage custom of the Jews, was a bride price. Each husband to be had to pay the bride's family a ransom, this payment paid to the bride's parents secured the marriage covenant. A very wealthy husband would pay a very rich ransom. In this case a whole city's foundation worth of precious gem stones, walls of purist crystal, and streets lined with gold. A very rich sum indeed, one fit for the King of Kings and his bride.
Another aspect of the bridegrooms wedding preparation was that after the bride price was paid, the groom went to build a house for them to live in. After this house was built and the father of the groom approved it, the bride was sent for. This city would be that house. But as I have said, this city is also the bride.
Most interesting. The temple of the New Jerusalem.
And I saw no temple in it, for the Lord God Almighty is its temple, even the Lamb.
And the city had no need of the sun, nor of the moon, that they might shine in it, for the glory of God illuminated it, even its lamp is the Lamb.
And the nations of the ones saved will walk in its light; and the kings of the earth bring their glory and honor into it. And its gates may not at all be shut by day, for no night will be there. And they will bring the glory and the honor of the nations into it.
And all profaning may not at all enter into it, or any making an abomination or a lie; but only the ones having been written in the Book of Life of the Lamb.
Now we come to the end of the discription of the city of the New Jerusalem, the bride of the Lamb. We see that there is not temple in the city, in this New Jerusalem, as there was in the past Jerusalem.
The old temple is destroyed, it is gone. Its work is finished, it was to forshadow the sacrifice of the Lamb of God, and that purpose is fulfilled. There for as a master craftsman puts away the scaffolding, tears down the supporting walls from the building he was building, the old temple was destroyed and is no more.
In this new Jerusalem, there is not temple and no need for one. For God/Christ dwells in and amidst his people. God, even the Lamb is the temple, he himself. Not some edifice made of stone by human hands. Nothing in this new city contains the glory of God. His glory is not hid behind a heavy veil and behinds closed doors. NO, it is in the open, for all his people to see and enjoy. And more than that, since the walls are crystal clear, like glass, the light of his glory shines out from this city to all the surrounding country side.
This speaks of God dwelling in his people. That the Lamb is the light of the world, and shines in his people, changing their lives from ones of darkness to ones of light, which is love, truth, and life.
It is clear to me that this city is a real and present reality. For if it is not, then what do we who are in Christ dwell in now? We are not in darkness, but in light, the teaching of the NT is clear in this point. The bride of Christ is not some future reality, it is here and now. We are the bride of Christ. He lives in us, his people, a tabernacle made by God not by human hands.
Peter also uses this analogy of a building in referring to believers. He says that we are as living stones, built up on that one living corner stone which is Christ.
We are those living stones, clear as crystal, that make up the city of the New Jerusalem, we show forth the glorious light of God and the Lamb. We do this now, this is not some prediction of what will come, but a description of the present reality in Christ Jesus.
I know there are many eschatological schemes out there in the Christian world. But this is what I read and see. It is a simple and clear understanding of this chapter. --------------------
Body Servant, IHMS
in Cape Coral, FL
When will it be established or has it already been established?
When will it come to earth?
Where will it come to earth?
Who is the city?
Let us consider the passage of Revelations 21 and see what it says. Perhaps we can understand it without our preconceived ideas of eschatology. I know its hard, its taken me almost 30 years to unlearn what I learned in my first 4 years in Christ.
When I read this passage I stop to think, what did this mean to the intended audience?Remember this book of revelation was addressed to the existing churches in Asia Minor. The time frame given to them as to when these things would happen was "soon", not thousands of years in the future, nor some future generations, but soon to them. The call to the churches was to be prepared, be ready to stand firm in the faith, be an overcomer. This is what I read, and what I now accept to be the full truth. No twisting of words and definitions, just a plain, simple reading of what was written.
Lets look now at what this city is. Two allegories are used in this passage. One is a city, the other is a bride. This is not a physical city that is the bride of Christ. That makes no sense at all. A stone city, set on foundations of gem stones, with gates made of pearl being a bride of God? Since this makes no sense, and since this revelation comes from Jesus himself, then it must mean something. Which of course it does.
The city is a representation, an allusion, an allegory of what the bride is like. It represents the functioning relationship of the bridegroom with the bride. It represents facets of the brides character. It represents God's work in obtaining the bride for his Son to marry. Many things are represented here, some I may not have thought about yet. Lets look at the description of the city, the New Jerusalem.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The New Jerusalem comes down from Heaven and God.
Rev 21
And I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth passed away, and the sea no longer is.
And I, John, saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of Heaven from God, having been prepared as a bride, having been adorned for her Husband.
And I heard a great voice out of Heaven, saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God with men! And He will tabernacle with them, and they will be His people, and God Himself will be with them as their God. And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes. And death shall be no longer, nor mourning, nor outcry, nor will there be pain any more; for the first things passed away.
Here John describes what is being shown to him in this vision. A new heaven and a new earth, with no sea, can mean many things. It definitely means a great change in the state of things. In the Old Testament this same language is used for the change of a kingdom. So this can represent the change from the kingdom age ruled by the Mosaic Law and temple practice to the kingdom age of grace in and ruled by Christ Jesus.
Then John sees the New Jerusalem, lets look at what John tells us about this city.
1. It comes down from heaven.
2. It is coming down from God
3. It has been prepared as a bride is prepared for her husband.
Here is a most interesting fact, it correctly identifies who and what this city is. John hears a voice coming to him from where the city came from, down out of heaven from God. This voice of God says,
1. "Behold, the tabernacle of God with men!"
2. "And He will tabernacle with them, and they will be His people, and "
3. "God Himself will be with them as their God."
4. "And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes."
5." And death shall be no longer, nor mourning, nor outcry, nor will there be pain any more; for the first things passed away."
The city is the tabernacle of God with men. The first tabernacle, then the temple of Solomon, then the temple of Herod were in the past times, the tabernacle of God with men. He dwelt in those tabernacles, his glory rested upon the mercy seat in the holy of holies in those tabernacles. But a change has taken place, a great change, like to the heavens and earth being rebuilt, as they were in creation. A new order has taken place. God will no longer dwell in houses made with the hands of men, but instead he will dwell in this new tabernacle, this new city of Jerusalem, this bride of Christ. This city, bride, tabernacle is where God dwells with men, this bride/city/tabernacle is a people whose God is God (YahVeh).
Can you see? This passage is not talking about a real physical city, it is talking about the people of God and his relationship with them. This is new order, a new age, no not that New Age which is all the rage among some who think themselves spiritual, but a true new age. The age of Moses and the children of Abraham is over. God's people are now a new people.
The Old Jerusalem is to be destroyed, the old tabernacle to be done away with, the old people to be replaced and a New Jerusalem made by God comes down from heaven, this city represents a new people created by God in Christ Jesus, with in these people God dwells as in a tabernacle. All things are in deed made new!
The one sitting on the throne speaks. And the One sitting on the throne said, Behold! I make all things new. And He says to me, Write, because these Words are faithful and true. And He said to me, It is done! I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the Ending.
To the one thirsting, I will freely give of the fountain of the Water of Life. The one overcoming will inherit all things, and I will be God to him, and he will be the son to Me. But for the cowardly and unbelieving, and those having become foul, and murderers, and fornicators, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all the lying ones, their part will be in the Lake burning with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.
See the enthroned Christ Jesus clearly says that he makes all things new. The old order is out, the ways taught by Moses in the Law has been done away with. No longer will sacrifices be made in the temple. No longer will the glory of God be present in the holy of holies, no longer will the priests do their bloody work. That age is over, all is new.
A new order has been instituted by the one on the throne. An angel shows John the bride, the wife of the Lamb, the city.
And one of the seven angels came to me, he having the seven bowls being filled with the seven last plagues, and spoke with me, saying, Come, I will show you the bride, the wife of the Lamb.
And he carried me in spirit onto a great and high mountain, and showed me the great city, holy Jerusalem, coming down out of Heaven from God, having the glory of God.
And its light was like a very precious stone, as a jasper stone, being clear as crystal, and having a great and high wall, having twelve gates, and twelve angels at the gates and names having been inscribed, which are of the twelve tribes of the sons of Israel.
From the east, three gates; from the north, three gates; from the south, three gates; and from the west, three gates. And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.
Again John sees this city coming down from heaven, from God. This shows that this work has nothing to do with the works of men, but is solely the work of God. This is not a man made religion, or religious work. No man conceived of this work, no, this is part of God's creation work, part of his eternal plan. In eternity past he conceived of this bride, this city. It came down from heaven because this is where it has dwelt, in the heart of God since before the start of creation.
This bride was planned from eternity past, before the foundations of the world, just as the Lamb was slain from the foundation of the world. This has always been God's plan. Remember we have said that the city represents ideas about the bride, who is the people of God in Christ Jesus.
The city's walls are crystal clear. The light of the city shines through them. Being crystal clear speaks of the purity of the bride and the way she shows forth the light that comes from within her. Later we see that the lamb himself is that light. So the bride, (people) show forth the glory, the light of the Lamb who rules within her (them).
In this city's walls are twelve gates, each one named for the twelve tribes of Israel. This represents the way of salvation that was prepared by the work of God in the twelve tribes of Israel. For it was his plan in the choosing of Abraham to bring forth a great tribe, that would then be used to bring forth God's plan of salvation to the whole world. The twelve children of Jacob/Israel were the way that God chose to bring salvation to the world. He used them to represent the sinfulness of men, to shadow salvation in the sacrifices, to act as a wife to him, until the proper time, when he would bring forth the bride he had chosen from eternity past.
And he speaking with me had a golden reed, that he may measure the city, and its gates, and its wall.
The twelve gates are three on each wall, facing each of the four cardinal directions, north, south, east, west.
This represents that the way of salvation is open to all people in every corner of the earth. And the gates are open, not closed, all many freely enter into it, except those who are "profaning may not at all enter into it, or any making an abomination or a lie;" these are kept outside by the angels stationed at each gate.
Only "the ones having been written in the Book of Life of the Lamb" may enter, as we shall read at the end of this passage.
Also notice that the city has twelve foundations, each after the twelve apostles of Jesus. This shows that the people, the bride is founded on the teaching of the twelve apostles. The city described further.
And the city lies four cornered, even its length as much as the width also. And he measured the city with the reed at twelve thousand stadia; its length and width and height are equal. And he measured its wall, a hundred and forty four cubits, a measure of a man, which is of an angel.
And the structure of its wall was jasper; and the city was pure gold, like pure glass.
And the foundation of the wall of the city having been adorned with every precious stone: The first foundation, jasper; the second, sapphire; the third, chalcedony; the fourth, emerald; the fifth, sardonyx; the sixth, sardius; the seventh, chrysolite; the eighth, beryl; the ninth, topaz; the tenth, chrysoprasus; the eleventh, hyacinth; the twelfth, amethyst.
And the twelve gates were twelve pearls; respectively each one of the gates was of one pearl. And the street of the city was pure gold, as transparent glass.
This city measures as perfect cube. I'm not sure what the measurement represents, but the cube is a perfect geometric structure, having four equal sides, with length, width and height all being the same. To me this speaks of the perfection of the saints, a perfection made by God.
Again we see that the walls are made of pure jasper, or crystal, also pure gold like glass. Gold is an interesting metal, it can be made so thin that you can see through it, it can be made a clear as glass. And gold is one metal that never corrodes. As such it is considered the most noble of the noble metals.
The foundation stones are all gemstones. The same gemstones as in the ephod of the priests. Each stone represents a tribe of Israel, as well as the twelve apostles. Again this represents the earthly foundation of salvation being found in Israel and taught by the apostles.
These gems and the gold also represent something else, the bride price of Christ. Within the marriage custom of the Jews, was a bride price. Each husband to be had to pay the bride's family a ransom, this payment paid to the bride's parents secured the marriage covenant. A very wealthy husband would pay a very rich ransom. In this case a whole city's foundation worth of precious gem stones, walls of purist crystal, and streets lined with gold. A very rich sum indeed, one fit for the King of Kings and his bride.
Another aspect of the bridegrooms wedding preparation was that after the bride price was paid, the groom went to build a house for them to live in. After this house was built and the father of the groom approved it, the bride was sent for. This city would be that house. But as I have said, this city is also the bride.
Most interesting. The temple of the New Jerusalem.
And I saw no temple in it, for the Lord God Almighty is its temple, even the Lamb.
And the city had no need of the sun, nor of the moon, that they might shine in it, for the glory of God illuminated it, even its lamp is the Lamb.
And the nations of the ones saved will walk in its light; and the kings of the earth bring their glory and honor into it. And its gates may not at all be shut by day, for no night will be there. And they will bring the glory and the honor of the nations into it.
And all profaning may not at all enter into it, or any making an abomination or a lie; but only the ones having been written in the Book of Life of the Lamb.
Now we come to the end of the discription of the city of the New Jerusalem, the bride of the Lamb. We see that there is not temple in the city, in this New Jerusalem, as there was in the past Jerusalem.
The old temple is destroyed, it is gone. Its work is finished, it was to forshadow the sacrifice of the Lamb of God, and that purpose is fulfilled. There for as a master craftsman puts away the scaffolding, tears down the supporting walls from the building he was building, the old temple was destroyed and is no more.
In this new Jerusalem, there is not temple and no need for one. For God/Christ dwells in and amidst his people. God, even the Lamb is the temple, he himself. Not some edifice made of stone by human hands. Nothing in this new city contains the glory of God. His glory is not hid behind a heavy veil and behinds closed doors. NO, it is in the open, for all his people to see and enjoy. And more than that, since the walls are crystal clear, like glass, the light of his glory shines out from this city to all the surrounding country side.
This speaks of God dwelling in his people. That the Lamb is the light of the world, and shines in his people, changing their lives from ones of darkness to ones of light, which is love, truth, and life.
It is clear to me that this city is a real and present reality. For if it is not, then what do we who are in Christ dwell in now? We are not in darkness, but in light, the teaching of the NT is clear in this point. The bride of Christ is not some future reality, it is here and now. We are the bride of Christ. He lives in us, his people, a tabernacle made by God not by human hands.
Peter also uses this analogy of a building in referring to believers. He says that we are as living stones, built up on that one living corner stone which is Christ.
We are those living stones, clear as crystal, that make up the city of the New Jerusalem, we show forth the glorious light of God and the Lamb. We do this now, this is not some prediction of what will come, but a description of the present reality in Christ Jesus.
I know there are many eschatological schemes out there in the Christian world. But this is what I read and see. It is a simple and clear understanding of this chapter. --------------------
Body Servant, IHMS
in Cape Coral, FL
Saturday, November 07, 2009
Eschatology
When I came to the Lord in 1973 eschatology was a popular subject. Many got into the esoteric symbology of Revelations. Many taught the soon return of the Lord. Many of us made decisions based on the immenant return of the Lord.
It was about 1975 that I was shown some truths that led me to conclude that the pre-trib rapture doctrine was just another doctrine of men and not biblical. After testing many other eschatological views I have come to the preterist view. I find many merits in this view as I will post in a series of posts.
The book of the Revelation of Jesus Christ is most misunderstood today, and I think is being falsely taught.
Consider this article regarding the time indicators of this prophecy.
This book of prophecy is filled with symbols and allusions that for many are hard to understand. The depth and quantity of these symbols causes many to mis-interpret them and twist them so that the original meaning is lost on the modern reader.
It is my goal to try to make this book easy to understand.This last book of the Bible, and as far as we can determine the last book of the canon of scripture that was penned in the first century AD, is based on earlier prophecies. Many of the symbols are repeats of earlier prophetic symbols, such as the prophecies and interpretations of dreams by Daniel, and the Olivet Discource by Jesus. To understand some of the symbols we must look to these earlier prophecies. Other allusions are to contemporary history and events from the time of the writing of this book. Having a knowledge of those times will shed much light on the meaning of much of this book of prophecy.
I'd like to start with a very misunderstood aspect of this prophecy, the time frame. It has become clear to me the more I study and consider the prophecies of the end times, or eschatology (from the Greek term, meaning last things), that these prophecies were fulfilled in first century AD.
The time indicators of Revelation predict a fulfillment of this prophecy in a short time from when it was penned, and we do find the fulfilling event with in a few short years of when this prophecy was penned. This prophecy was penned about 60AD and the fulfilling event took place from 63-70AD.There are four very clear time indicators in the book of Revelation, that set the fulfillment of this prophecy in a near time frame.
In the first chapter we find;
Revelation 1:1-3 (NIV)
"1 The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show his servants what must soon take place. He made it known by sending his angel to his servant John, 2 who testifies to everything he saw—that is, the word of God and the testimony of Jesus Christ. 3 Blessed is the one who reads the words of this prophecy, and blessed are those who hear it and take to heart what is written in it, because the time is near."
This opening statement contains two time indicators, "what must soon take place" and "the time is near". These set the time stage for the fulfillment of this prophecy and gives the reason for this book. Jesus wished to warn and prepare the saints for what was to happen to them in the near future. Based on these two time indicators the following word of prophecy is about events that will occur in the short future of when this book was written.
Next note who this book is written to, "4 John, To the seven churches in the province of Asia". This book was written by John addressed to seven churches in Asia in his day. This book was not like the book of Daniel that was sealed until the end times. No, this book of prophecy was written to John's contemporaries because the events prophecied would be taking place in their day, not some future time period as was true for Daniel.
To understand this book we must try to understand it from the reference point of those to whom it was addressed, the seven churches of Asia in the time of John, or the 60s AD. Looking at the history of that time, will inform us of what this prophecy means. The history of that time period will show us the fulfilling events.
The end of this book again gives us a near time indicator,
Rev. 22:6-7
" "These words are trustworthy and true. The Lord, the God of the spirits of the prophets, sent his angel to show his servants the things that must soon take place."
Jesus Is Coming 7 "Behold, I am coming soon! Blessed is he who keeps the words of the prophecy in this book." ""...that must soon take place" and "I am coming soon!"
And the angel told John, "Do not seal up the words of the prophecy of this book, because the time is near." (Rev. 22:10 )
This is in contrast to the word given to Daniel, to " 4 But you, Daniel, close up and seal the words of the scroll until the time of the end." (Daniel 12:4)
This book of prophecy has time indicators that are like the book covers of a book. They show when this prophecy was to be fulfilled. They all clearly show that the time of the fulfillment was to be in the near future from the writing of this book, and not in some distant future time as many today suppose.
To find the fulfilling events we must look at what is past history to us, but was future to the seven churches in Asia at the time of the writing of this book of prophecy. This book of prophecy is congruent with another word of prophecy given by Jesus earlier to his disciples upon the mount of Olives. By looking at these two we can find the historic events that fulfill these prophecies.
It was about 1975 that I was shown some truths that led me to conclude that the pre-trib rapture doctrine was just another doctrine of men and not biblical. After testing many other eschatological views I have come to the preterist view. I find many merits in this view as I will post in a series of posts.
The book of the Revelation of Jesus Christ is most misunderstood today, and I think is being falsely taught.
Consider this article regarding the time indicators of this prophecy.
This book of prophecy is filled with symbols and allusions that for many are hard to understand. The depth and quantity of these symbols causes many to mis-interpret them and twist them so that the original meaning is lost on the modern reader.
It is my goal to try to make this book easy to understand.This last book of the Bible, and as far as we can determine the last book of the canon of scripture that was penned in the first century AD, is based on earlier prophecies. Many of the symbols are repeats of earlier prophetic symbols, such as the prophecies and interpretations of dreams by Daniel, and the Olivet Discource by Jesus. To understand some of the symbols we must look to these earlier prophecies. Other allusions are to contemporary history and events from the time of the writing of this book. Having a knowledge of those times will shed much light on the meaning of much of this book of prophecy.
I'd like to start with a very misunderstood aspect of this prophecy, the time frame. It has become clear to me the more I study and consider the prophecies of the end times, or eschatology (from the Greek term, meaning last things), that these prophecies were fulfilled in first century AD.
The time indicators of Revelation predict a fulfillment of this prophecy in a short time from when it was penned, and we do find the fulfilling event with in a few short years of when this prophecy was penned. This prophecy was penned about 60AD and the fulfilling event took place from 63-70AD.There are four very clear time indicators in the book of Revelation, that set the fulfillment of this prophecy in a near time frame.
In the first chapter we find;
Revelation 1:1-3 (NIV)
"1 The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show his servants what must soon take place. He made it known by sending his angel to his servant John, 2 who testifies to everything he saw—that is, the word of God and the testimony of Jesus Christ. 3 Blessed is the one who reads the words of this prophecy, and blessed are those who hear it and take to heart what is written in it, because the time is near."
This opening statement contains two time indicators, "what must soon take place" and "the time is near". These set the time stage for the fulfillment of this prophecy and gives the reason for this book. Jesus wished to warn and prepare the saints for what was to happen to them in the near future. Based on these two time indicators the following word of prophecy is about events that will occur in the short future of when this book was written.
Next note who this book is written to, "4 John, To the seven churches in the province of Asia". This book was written by John addressed to seven churches in Asia in his day. This book was not like the book of Daniel that was sealed until the end times. No, this book of prophecy was written to John's contemporaries because the events prophecied would be taking place in their day, not some future time period as was true for Daniel.
To understand this book we must try to understand it from the reference point of those to whom it was addressed, the seven churches of Asia in the time of John, or the 60s AD. Looking at the history of that time, will inform us of what this prophecy means. The history of that time period will show us the fulfilling events.
The end of this book again gives us a near time indicator,
Rev. 22:6-7
" "These words are trustworthy and true. The Lord, the God of the spirits of the prophets, sent his angel to show his servants the things that must soon take place."
Jesus Is Coming 7 "Behold, I am coming soon! Blessed is he who keeps the words of the prophecy in this book." ""...that must soon take place" and "I am coming soon!"
And the angel told John, "Do not seal up the words of the prophecy of this book, because the time is near." (Rev. 22:10 )
This is in contrast to the word given to Daniel, to " 4 But you, Daniel, close up and seal the words of the scroll until the time of the end." (Daniel 12:4)
This book of prophecy has time indicators that are like the book covers of a book. They show when this prophecy was to be fulfilled. They all clearly show that the time of the fulfillment was to be in the near future from the writing of this book, and not in some distant future time as many today suppose.
To find the fulfilling events we must look at what is past history to us, but was future to the seven churches in Asia at the time of the writing of this book of prophecy. This book of prophecy is congruent with another word of prophecy given by Jesus earlier to his disciples upon the mount of Olives. By looking at these two we can find the historic events that fulfill these prophecies.
Sunday, October 04, 2009
Accountability and Submission
Accountability and Submission.
by Kent Secor
Two words in the English language that most Americans take great umbrages with are accountability and submission. Americans take a strong stand on their individuality and freedom to make up their own mind, as well as communicate their own opinion to other citizens in open debate. Many ideas can be debated for decades with no clear resolution, dividing many into differing parties of opinion, each resolute that they are right and the others are wrong.
Within the church these term of accountability and submission are used to call the membership into conformity with the leadership and denomination. And the same party division takes place as in the general American society. We have divisions set up along denominational party lines with each one resolute in their opinions.
These terms have been historically used also to establish and support of monarchical and autocratic forms of government. The king, lord or nobleman was taught as being ordained by God and therefor due submission to. Obedience to their rule was to be unquestioned, no matter how good or bad the ruler was. To disobey God's ordained rulers was considered sin as well as treason.
In the church we have this same God ordained doctrine towards church leadership. Many see their leader or teacher as God's anointed and we are commanded to "not touch God's anointed". They are seen as above reproach, judgment or criticism. They are considered to be spiritual superior, intellectually superior and morally superior.
Many recent public reports in the media has underscored the fact that church leaders are not superior by reason of their position. They fail and fall into sin the same as any other believer. This calls into serious question the doctrine of divine ordaination of leadership in the church. It begs the question of the superiority of leaders in the church. Are pastors, priests, reverends divinly superior or are they simple brethren who serve in a leadership function? This also begs the question regarding the clergy and laity division we find in most denominational doctrine. Is this division right? Being good fundamentalists we must ask is this division biblical? Being good Americans we must ask does this place an undue, unjust and incorrect restraint on our freedom in Christ?
I hold that the normal church doctrine of the clergy's divine right to leadership and the laity's accountability and submission to that leadership to be non-biblical at its very roots. I see it rooted in culture and civil government, and not biblical.
I hold that the only accountability that is biblical is the believer's and assembly's accountability to the Lord Jesus Christ, as God's divinely ordained head of the ekklesia. That this headship was bought at great price by Jesus' sacficial death for the sins of all men in exact obedience to the Father's will.
I hold that biblical submission in the assembly is to be equal and a matter of the loving servant relationship between the two parties and not a matter of position in a church organization.
I see relationship as the basis for assembly submission and accountability. The model for the assembly I find in the New Testament is one of an extended family. Biblically we see the family as the first God ordained institution. God created Adam and Eve, commanded them to be "fruitful and multiply and subdue the earth." This command ordained family as the basic institution from the beginning of mankind. (Genesis 1:28)
God's Ordained Model: The Family
Within the local family unit of father, mother and children there is a natural, organic submission. The father and mother were first husband and wife. They married to join together their two lives into a common life. Their love for each other causes them to submit them selves to each other. They form a relationship of give and take, serving each other. By this loving service to each other they build a depth of loving relationship with each other. In this relationship commands are not needed. If each is serving the other out of love a simple communication of need is addressed by the other as a opportunity for serving them.
The children are the outcome of the husband and wife's intimate love for each other. The children are raised with in the loving service relationship of the father and mother. They submit themselves to the father and mother at first out of the basic need for survival. A baby has no choice, he can not live on his own. With out the loving service of his parents, it would soon die of neglect and starvation. The new baby grows in love and submission to his parents. Taking their service and learning obedience to their directions and commands.
Don't touch the fire, make potty in the toilet are early commands he learns. As he grows he comes to understand the reasons for these commands. He learns to obey his parents and give back in service to the family by doing family chores. He learns to serve others, by serving his parents and any other siblings. Eventually he grows into adulthood to find a wife and start a family of his own.
Within the father, mother and children relationship we see submission and accountability taking place. It is founded on love for each other and service to each other. They both give and receive loving service from each other. We all know examples of families that do not operate in love, that do not have deep loving and serving relationships. We call them disfunctional families and hold them up to judgment, scorn and ridicule in our popular plays and television shows. Consider the long run American sitcom "Married with Children" in which the parents are in a relationship of dependency rather than loving service to each other. The children are rebellious and seeking their own ways, rather than seeking to serve the other members of the family.
Thankfully this is not the true norm of our societies. Though it is the norm that we find in public media. As in most cases bad news is good news, and that is what we find prevelant in our news media and represented on many of todays tv shows. Gone are the days when shows like "Daddy knows best", "Leave it to Beaver" and "Ozzy and Harriet Nelson" get center stage.
Now its Ozzie Ozbourne and clan that gets tv shows. Shows like "Two men" and "Grace" which show men and women following after shallow relationships outside of any context of real loving service in a marriage.
God's Model for the Assembly
The ekklesia or assembly of God in Christ Jesus is often referred to as a family in the New Testament scriptures. Relationship is the heart of the assembly. Jesus taught that there is no master, no teacher other than himself. That we all are to be servants of each other ruled by the command to love one another in the same manner that he loved while on the earth. Christ's love led him to sacrifice himself on the cross for the sins of those he loved. His life and sacrifice are the example of our own love and service to one another in the assembly.
Paul said that he felt like the father of the assembly, preparing his daughter to be the bride for an upcoming marriage. Paul functioned in many ways as a spiritual father to the assemblies he formed and planted. In his letters we see the loving council of a father to his children. He rebukes them, he calls them to remember the lessons he taught them in their infacy. He gives himself as an example, calling them to remember his life among them. On the basis of his relationship with them, he continues to instruct them in the way of adult mature life in Christ.
Paul taught that we have one lord, one master and one God. He taught that Christ alone is our head. His instruction to elders in the assemblies was to be a model of Christ, and to protect the assemblies from the wolves in sheep's clothing.
Elders among the assembly, not over them.
The form of leadership we see expressed in the NT is one similar to the family. In the family we have the father and mother in a loving servant relationship, raising children to follow their example. In the NT assembly we see loving servant older mature believers, teaching the younger believers to model their lives in Christ. Out of this loving elder service, the younger believers learn in real and practical ways, what it means to follow Christ. They see how their elders do it, and mimic their actions. Just as little children mimic their parents and learn how to perform the functions of life, so too do the youngers learn from the elders in the NT assembly.
The elders are not over the assembly in some kind of superior way, but among the assembly. The overall rule is that all are to submit to one another out of love for each other. This puts all on an equal level with each other. All are to submit themselves to Christ as the only head of the assembly. In this mutual submission the elders are to be a model of loving service to the others. Their lives should model how to submit themselves to God, and how to live in loving service to the others. By their deeds and words they should model love and service.
If their lives demonstrate the love and sevice of Christ, then their teaching will have the weight of truth and yes, authority because their lives show it to be true. The youngers will submit to their authority because they see the elders are about loving and serving them. To the degree of love and service, to the degree of relationship the youngers will submit themselves to the elders.
Within this loving service to one another, the elders will only need to express their opinions and the youngers out of their love for their elders will consider the elders opinion with more weight than that of others.
There will be no need for statements of adherence or obedience. No need to sign covenant agreements with a leadership. No need for the leadership to claim divine right, or command submission to their assumed authority. These are only necessary when there is no depth of relationship between elders and youngers.
Accountability
As with submission, accountability comes with relationship. Submission is directly addressed in the NT, but accountability is not directly addressed. Accountability is assumed in modern doctrine. It is assumed to be a natural part of submission of the laity to the clergy.
Accountability means that one is accountable to another for their actions and words. We can clearly see in scripture that all men are accountable to their creator. God made us, he has instructed us how he wants us to live, and we are accountable to his judgment of us during our lives and at the end in a final judgment of how we lived our lives. Jesus taught that every idle word would be judged.
The Holy Spirit is God's agency of accountability. Jesus taught that the Holy Spirit is in this world to convict men of sin and convince them of right living and the judgment of God to come. It is the work of the Holy Spirit that convicts of our sin and draws us to the Lord who purchased forgiveness of sin by his atonement work. It is the Holy Spirit that empowers us to become sons of God, living and growing in Christ's resurrection power and grace. It is the Holy Spirit that calls us to live lives that will earn us a "well done, my good and faithful servant" at the judgment seat of Christ at the end of our days.
We all are accountable to God during our lives and at the end of them.
Within the assembly our mutual submission and the submission of youngers to elders calls us to greater accountability to God. We are only accountable to each other in the context of any commitments we make to each other. We are not generally accountable in all areas of our lives to each other. To say we are generally accountable would imply that we belong or are owned by some other.
In the same way that submission is voluntary and based on loving service to one anther, so too must be accountability. It can not be commanded or coericed. It can not be demanded. It must be given.
If I say on Saturday I will come over and serve you in some way, than by reason of my committment to you, I am accountable to follow through. But you have no reason to demand me be accountable to you to come and serve you. Accountability is associated with obedience. If you have the right to command me to obey you, then I am accountable to you.
An employer has a limited right in the scope of the job requirements to command his employees. That is the funciton of supervision. As your employer I need a certain job performed, and I command you, my employee to perform the required work and complete that job. You as my employee are accountable to me to complete that job. But you are not accountable to me outside the scope of that job. I can not command you to live the way I want you to, outside the job.
Accountability is tied to function. Submission is tied to relationship. In the job example, an employee submits himself to the employer and is accountable to perform his work in accordance to the commands of the employer. This accountability lasts for the term of employment under that employer.
Most churches today use a corporation or business model for their organzation. So the submission and accountablity model they use is that of employer and employee. Under most denominations doctrines you are called to submit to the management representatives with obedience. The clergies are to be obeyed by the laity. The clergy management employers command the laity emmployees in their church work.
Conclusion
This was not the NT model, and not how the NT assemblies functioned. Submission was a far different thing than what we find in most of our modern denominations today. The NT model was one of an extended family based on loving service to one another, with all being equally submitted to the only head, Jesus Christ.
by Kent Secor
Two words in the English language that most Americans take great umbrages with are accountability and submission. Americans take a strong stand on their individuality and freedom to make up their own mind, as well as communicate their own opinion to other citizens in open debate. Many ideas can be debated for decades with no clear resolution, dividing many into differing parties of opinion, each resolute that they are right and the others are wrong.
Within the church these term of accountability and submission are used to call the membership into conformity with the leadership and denomination. And the same party division takes place as in the general American society. We have divisions set up along denominational party lines with each one resolute in their opinions.
These terms have been historically used also to establish and support of monarchical and autocratic forms of government. The king, lord or nobleman was taught as being ordained by God and therefor due submission to. Obedience to their rule was to be unquestioned, no matter how good or bad the ruler was. To disobey God's ordained rulers was considered sin as well as treason.
In the church we have this same God ordained doctrine towards church leadership. Many see their leader or teacher as God's anointed and we are commanded to "not touch God's anointed". They are seen as above reproach, judgment or criticism. They are considered to be spiritual superior, intellectually superior and morally superior.
Many recent public reports in the media has underscored the fact that church leaders are not superior by reason of their position. They fail and fall into sin the same as any other believer. This calls into serious question the doctrine of divine ordaination of leadership in the church. It begs the question of the superiority of leaders in the church. Are pastors, priests, reverends divinly superior or are they simple brethren who serve in a leadership function? This also begs the question regarding the clergy and laity division we find in most denominational doctrine. Is this division right? Being good fundamentalists we must ask is this division biblical? Being good Americans we must ask does this place an undue, unjust and incorrect restraint on our freedom in Christ?
I hold that the normal church doctrine of the clergy's divine right to leadership and the laity's accountability and submission to that leadership to be non-biblical at its very roots. I see it rooted in culture and civil government, and not biblical.
I hold that the only accountability that is biblical is the believer's and assembly's accountability to the Lord Jesus Christ, as God's divinely ordained head of the ekklesia. That this headship was bought at great price by Jesus' sacficial death for the sins of all men in exact obedience to the Father's will.
I hold that biblical submission in the assembly is to be equal and a matter of the loving servant relationship between the two parties and not a matter of position in a church organization.
I see relationship as the basis for assembly submission and accountability. The model for the assembly I find in the New Testament is one of an extended family. Biblically we see the family as the first God ordained institution. God created Adam and Eve, commanded them to be "fruitful and multiply and subdue the earth." This command ordained family as the basic institution from the beginning of mankind. (Genesis 1:28)
God's Ordained Model: The Family
Within the local family unit of father, mother and children there is a natural, organic submission. The father and mother were first husband and wife. They married to join together their two lives into a common life. Their love for each other causes them to submit them selves to each other. They form a relationship of give and take, serving each other. By this loving service to each other they build a depth of loving relationship with each other. In this relationship commands are not needed. If each is serving the other out of love a simple communication of need is addressed by the other as a opportunity for serving them.
The children are the outcome of the husband and wife's intimate love for each other. The children are raised with in the loving service relationship of the father and mother. They submit themselves to the father and mother at first out of the basic need for survival. A baby has no choice, he can not live on his own. With out the loving service of his parents, it would soon die of neglect and starvation. The new baby grows in love and submission to his parents. Taking their service and learning obedience to their directions and commands.
Don't touch the fire, make potty in the toilet are early commands he learns. As he grows he comes to understand the reasons for these commands. He learns to obey his parents and give back in service to the family by doing family chores. He learns to serve others, by serving his parents and any other siblings. Eventually he grows into adulthood to find a wife and start a family of his own.
Within the father, mother and children relationship we see submission and accountability taking place. It is founded on love for each other and service to each other. They both give and receive loving service from each other. We all know examples of families that do not operate in love, that do not have deep loving and serving relationships. We call them disfunctional families and hold them up to judgment, scorn and ridicule in our popular plays and television shows. Consider the long run American sitcom "Married with Children" in which the parents are in a relationship of dependency rather than loving service to each other. The children are rebellious and seeking their own ways, rather than seeking to serve the other members of the family.
Thankfully this is not the true norm of our societies. Though it is the norm that we find in public media. As in most cases bad news is good news, and that is what we find prevelant in our news media and represented on many of todays tv shows. Gone are the days when shows like "Daddy knows best", "Leave it to Beaver" and "Ozzy and Harriet Nelson" get center stage.
Now its Ozzie Ozbourne and clan that gets tv shows. Shows like "Two men" and "Grace" which show men and women following after shallow relationships outside of any context of real loving service in a marriage.
God's Model for the Assembly
The ekklesia or assembly of God in Christ Jesus is often referred to as a family in the New Testament scriptures. Relationship is the heart of the assembly. Jesus taught that there is no master, no teacher other than himself. That we all are to be servants of each other ruled by the command to love one another in the same manner that he loved while on the earth. Christ's love led him to sacrifice himself on the cross for the sins of those he loved. His life and sacrifice are the example of our own love and service to one another in the assembly.
Paul said that he felt like the father of the assembly, preparing his daughter to be the bride for an upcoming marriage. Paul functioned in many ways as a spiritual father to the assemblies he formed and planted. In his letters we see the loving council of a father to his children. He rebukes them, he calls them to remember the lessons he taught them in their infacy. He gives himself as an example, calling them to remember his life among them. On the basis of his relationship with them, he continues to instruct them in the way of adult mature life in Christ.
Paul taught that we have one lord, one master and one God. He taught that Christ alone is our head. His instruction to elders in the assemblies was to be a model of Christ, and to protect the assemblies from the wolves in sheep's clothing.
Elders among the assembly, not over them.
The form of leadership we see expressed in the NT is one similar to the family. In the family we have the father and mother in a loving servant relationship, raising children to follow their example. In the NT assembly we see loving servant older mature believers, teaching the younger believers to model their lives in Christ. Out of this loving elder service, the younger believers learn in real and practical ways, what it means to follow Christ. They see how their elders do it, and mimic their actions. Just as little children mimic their parents and learn how to perform the functions of life, so too do the youngers learn from the elders in the NT assembly.
The elders are not over the assembly in some kind of superior way, but among the assembly. The overall rule is that all are to submit to one another out of love for each other. This puts all on an equal level with each other. All are to submit themselves to Christ as the only head of the assembly. In this mutual submission the elders are to be a model of loving service to the others. Their lives should model how to submit themselves to God, and how to live in loving service to the others. By their deeds and words they should model love and service.
If their lives demonstrate the love and sevice of Christ, then their teaching will have the weight of truth and yes, authority because their lives show it to be true. The youngers will submit to their authority because they see the elders are about loving and serving them. To the degree of love and service, to the degree of relationship the youngers will submit themselves to the elders.
Within this loving service to one another, the elders will only need to express their opinions and the youngers out of their love for their elders will consider the elders opinion with more weight than that of others.
There will be no need for statements of adherence or obedience. No need to sign covenant agreements with a leadership. No need for the leadership to claim divine right, or command submission to their assumed authority. These are only necessary when there is no depth of relationship between elders and youngers.
Accountability
As with submission, accountability comes with relationship. Submission is directly addressed in the NT, but accountability is not directly addressed. Accountability is assumed in modern doctrine. It is assumed to be a natural part of submission of the laity to the clergy.
Accountability means that one is accountable to another for their actions and words. We can clearly see in scripture that all men are accountable to their creator. God made us, he has instructed us how he wants us to live, and we are accountable to his judgment of us during our lives and at the end in a final judgment of how we lived our lives. Jesus taught that every idle word would be judged.
The Holy Spirit is God's agency of accountability. Jesus taught that the Holy Spirit is in this world to convict men of sin and convince them of right living and the judgment of God to come. It is the work of the Holy Spirit that convicts of our sin and draws us to the Lord who purchased forgiveness of sin by his atonement work. It is the Holy Spirit that empowers us to become sons of God, living and growing in Christ's resurrection power and grace. It is the Holy Spirit that calls us to live lives that will earn us a "well done, my good and faithful servant" at the judgment seat of Christ at the end of our days.
We all are accountable to God during our lives and at the end of them.
Within the assembly our mutual submission and the submission of youngers to elders calls us to greater accountability to God. We are only accountable to each other in the context of any commitments we make to each other. We are not generally accountable in all areas of our lives to each other. To say we are generally accountable would imply that we belong or are owned by some other.
In the same way that submission is voluntary and based on loving service to one anther, so too must be accountability. It can not be commanded or coericed. It can not be demanded. It must be given.
If I say on Saturday I will come over and serve you in some way, than by reason of my committment to you, I am accountable to follow through. But you have no reason to demand me be accountable to you to come and serve you. Accountability is associated with obedience. If you have the right to command me to obey you, then I am accountable to you.
An employer has a limited right in the scope of the job requirements to command his employees. That is the funciton of supervision. As your employer I need a certain job performed, and I command you, my employee to perform the required work and complete that job. You as my employee are accountable to me to complete that job. But you are not accountable to me outside the scope of that job. I can not command you to live the way I want you to, outside the job.
Accountability is tied to function. Submission is tied to relationship. In the job example, an employee submits himself to the employer and is accountable to perform his work in accordance to the commands of the employer. This accountability lasts for the term of employment under that employer.
Most churches today use a corporation or business model for their organzation. So the submission and accountablity model they use is that of employer and employee. Under most denominations doctrines you are called to submit to the management representatives with obedience. The clergies are to be obeyed by the laity. The clergy management employers command the laity emmployees in their church work.
Conclusion
This was not the NT model, and not how the NT assemblies functioned. Submission was a far different thing than what we find in most of our modern denominations today. The NT model was one of an extended family based on loving service to one another, with all being equally submitted to the only head, Jesus Christ.
Monday, May 18, 2009
Denominations & Ordination: A Crock of Baloney?
Mike Morrell on his blog, Zoe Carnate posted an article titled,
My response to Mike is below.
>>>
Mike,
Thanks for the discussion. I find Tony's remarks interesting, and relevant to the present situation in Christian church society.
I also agree with you.
As one who has come out of the big box structure of church, I at first was very anti-anything that had to do with structure and organization. I find that many house church folk are in that very mode.
After 10 years or so in this mind set, or paradigm. I have come to the understanding that this life in Christ is nothing at all to do with one's chose method of gathering or meeting.
One of the things I have thought and spoken since I started on this HC part of my journey in Christ, is that it is not about HC. Now I add it is not about any form of church! And yet, it is all about the community of believers.
I too have come to a "and" view of church. To my present understanding, we are to be about building the body of Christ, building and advancing the kingdom of God and Christ. We are not to be about building our old and present denominational divisions and walls.
In some ways I appreciate Watchman Nee's idea of the local church, and not leaving one's locality to "attend church" in a different locality. Though in the past I took Nee's ideas to be too legalistic, I am starting to understand better what he was trying to communicate.
I see a fault in people seeking the "right church" or trying to find a church they fit into to. Most often people are not seeking the Lord or following his leading in their choices, instead they use some base idea of what church "should be" and seek one that meets their ideal.
Whether an ideal of liturgical practice, building structure, pastoral or teacher ability, doctrinal positions, denominational alignment, congregational services available, ...etc. People use many different criteria in choosing the "right church".
I believe that all these ideals miss the whole point of a fellowship of believers. I see the goal of a fellowship of believers is to be able to be involved in each other's lives, in real and practical ways. Daily as much as is possible in this busy world. (But then when has anyone's world not been busy?)
The goal should be to encourage one another, serve one another, bear up each other..and in all ways seek to fulfill the law of Christ, which is to love one another as he loved us.
With this base goal in mind as our ideal, I can see this happening in any historic church or communion. What I see happening in reality is that some churches and pastors get this, and try to implement it in their church. Others find that the "leaders" limit how far real community can take place, or church functions actually make it hard for the congregation to function fully as a community in some way. Hard to serve one another if all your time is devoted and consumed with keeping the machinery of the church organization working.
Many lose their lives in "church work" only to lose the soul of a believer's community. Some lose their own families, while "serving" at and for the Church.
I have found in house church, some of this reality of community. In our HC we still were driving across town to gather, and the distance between us did limit how often we could be with each other on a daily basis. Some weeks we only saw each other face to face at our meetings. Other weeks some of us might be involved together with other activities.
When a need arose we met it for each other, like an extended family would.
From my present view, I think we find the right ideal at work, in local neighborhood fellowships, whether in a historic type of church (IC) or one of the modern modes of HC or emerging church (EC).
I know of small town churches (one with a town population of 2,000) of the historic or IC type, that have the community ideal at work. The congregation has history together, many of them growing up in that town, and in that church body. Most know each other and each others family. They see each other outside the walls of the church building during the week. Many work for each other or with each other. They take care of each other when they are sick, bring over food, clean the house, harvest the back 40, and such. When there is a need someone takes care of it, without fanfare, it just gets taken care of.
This to me represents what can be good and right in a denominational IC setting.
So Mike I too have come to an "and" view of church. I'm not ready to accept lots of liturgy in my gatherings. But I can accept those who do, as equal brothers in Christ.
I think we need to spend our time encouraging what is right, more than criticizing all that is wrong with the church. Positive encouragement does a lot more in getting people to do the right thing (can we say orthoproxy?), then criticising them for all their wrong ways. When we criticise too much, people just get defensive, then the walls go up. They stop listening to us, and start to plan their defenses.
When we come to them with loving service, and speak gently words of encouragement, so as to spur them on to love and good deeds out of a pure heart. Just to do the next thing, the next step. At some point we find them walking besides us, less concerned with the historic church function and more concerned with expressing Christ with the other brethren in their locality, and after all isn't that one of our true goals? Not just being right (orthodox) but living right (orthoprox).
Matt 25:40 "As you have done it to the least of these my brethren, you have done it unto me."
Denominations & Ordination: A Crock of Baloney?
He is discussing a series of blogs by Tony Jones, who is discussing the idea of ordination in today's Church. He has some provacative ideas regarding ordination, it's worth reading.My response to Mike is below.
>>>
Mike,
Thanks for the discussion. I find Tony's remarks interesting, and relevant to the present situation in Christian church society.
I also agree with you.
As one who has come out of the big box structure of church, I at first was very anti-anything that had to do with structure and organization. I find that many house church folk are in that very mode.
After 10 years or so in this mind set, or paradigm. I have come to the understanding that this life in Christ is nothing at all to do with one's chose method of gathering or meeting.
One of the things I have thought and spoken since I started on this HC part of my journey in Christ, is that it is not about HC. Now I add it is not about any form of church! And yet, it is all about the community of believers.
I too have come to a "and" view of church. To my present understanding, we are to be about building the body of Christ, building and advancing the kingdom of God and Christ. We are not to be about building our old and present denominational divisions and walls.
In some ways I appreciate Watchman Nee's idea of the local church, and not leaving one's locality to "attend church" in a different locality. Though in the past I took Nee's ideas to be too legalistic, I am starting to understand better what he was trying to communicate.
I see a fault in people seeking the "right church" or trying to find a church they fit into to. Most often people are not seeking the Lord or following his leading in their choices, instead they use some base idea of what church "should be" and seek one that meets their ideal.
Whether an ideal of liturgical practice, building structure, pastoral or teacher ability, doctrinal positions, denominational alignment, congregational services available, ...etc. People use many different criteria in choosing the "right church".
I believe that all these ideals miss the whole point of a fellowship of believers. I see the goal of a fellowship of believers is to be able to be involved in each other's lives, in real and practical ways. Daily as much as is possible in this busy world. (But then when has anyone's world not been busy?)
The goal should be to encourage one another, serve one another, bear up each other..and in all ways seek to fulfill the law of Christ, which is to love one another as he loved us.
With this base goal in mind as our ideal, I can see this happening in any historic church or communion. What I see happening in reality is that some churches and pastors get this, and try to implement it in their church. Others find that the "leaders" limit how far real community can take place, or church functions actually make it hard for the congregation to function fully as a community in some way. Hard to serve one another if all your time is devoted and consumed with keeping the machinery of the church organization working.
Many lose their lives in "church work" only to lose the soul of a believer's community. Some lose their own families, while "serving" at and for the Church.
I have found in house church, some of this reality of community. In our HC we still were driving across town to gather, and the distance between us did limit how often we could be with each other on a daily basis. Some weeks we only saw each other face to face at our meetings. Other weeks some of us might be involved together with other activities.
When a need arose we met it for each other, like an extended family would.
From my present view, I think we find the right ideal at work, in local neighborhood fellowships, whether in a historic type of church (IC) or one of the modern modes of HC or emerging church (EC).
I know of small town churches (one with a town population of 2,000) of the historic or IC type, that have the community ideal at work. The congregation has history together, many of them growing up in that town, and in that church body. Most know each other and each others family. They see each other outside the walls of the church building during the week. Many work for each other or with each other. They take care of each other when they are sick, bring over food, clean the house, harvest the back 40, and such. When there is a need someone takes care of it, without fanfare, it just gets taken care of.
This to me represents what can be good and right in a denominational IC setting.
So Mike I too have come to an "and" view of church. I'm not ready to accept lots of liturgy in my gatherings. But I can accept those who do, as equal brothers in Christ.
I think we need to spend our time encouraging what is right, more than criticizing all that is wrong with the church. Positive encouragement does a lot more in getting people to do the right thing (can we say orthoproxy?), then criticising them for all their wrong ways. When we criticise too much, people just get defensive, then the walls go up. They stop listening to us, and start to plan their defenses.
When we come to them with loving service, and speak gently words of encouragement, so as to spur them on to love and good deeds out of a pure heart. Just to do the next thing, the next step. At some point we find them walking besides us, less concerned with the historic church function and more concerned with expressing Christ with the other brethren in their locality, and after all isn't that one of our true goals? Not just being right (orthodox) but living right (orthoprox).
Your fellow servant in Him,
Kent, IHMS
Kent, IHMS
in Cape Coral, FL
Matt 25:40 "As you have done it to the least of these my brethren, you have done it unto me."
Thursday, March 26, 2009
The Great Eternal Romance, part 2
Brethren,
You who have been called according to His purposes, washed by the sanctifing water of his words, the words that speak to us of his great love. It is to you I write.
Consider that great love epic that is recorded in our scriptures. That work called the Song of Solomon. What a beautiful piece of erotic literature.
"What?" you ask, "Erotic literature in the Bible?"
"Yes," I answer, "Erotic literature in our Bible, God's Word."
We have a piece of most wonderful and unfilthy erotic literature in our Bible. And you trust your children with it and allow them to read it all they want to, don't you? The Song of Solomon has many erotic images in it. True, and pure images. Only the sinful and vulgar make of it something impure and vulgar.
I challenge you married couples to read it outloud to each other. Send the children off to grandma's or aunties house. Go into your bedroom, shut the door and husbands read the Solomons part, while looking your wife in her eyes. Think of her as Solomon thought of his new bride. Wives, read the bride's part and look into your husband's eyes and think of him as the bride did of Solomon. You will find the undefiled eroticism of this writing.
Now, I give you a mystery. This piece is about Christ and the church!
Think about that for a minute or two. Meditate upon it for a week or a month and you will see it!
Christ has the same passionate love for his bride as Solomon did for his. CHRIST LOVES THE CHURCH, PASSIONATELY! I can't write that loud enough!
Christ loves the sight of her. Loves the sound of her voice. Loves the scent of her. Loves her body. Loves her soul. Loves her spirit.
Before you get away from me, realize that no one of us individually are the church. This is not about you and Jesus. It is about US and JESUS. It takes a group of us to express the bride of Christ. In any given locality, any given fellowship of believers, any given local church, you find the bride of Christ. And Jesus loves you passionately!
With all our problems, with all our faults, with all our rebellious ways. Jesus passionately loves the church!
He pursues her, her gifts her with so many great blessings, all to win her! He gave all, even to his very life's blood to win her. In fact his death, was a part of the bride price that Jesus to obtain his bride.
Jesus could not enter into the bridle chamber with his perfect bride, until that terrible price was paid. And he paid it most willingly. For the thought of the prize laid before him, he sacrificed his own life to redeem his bride, to purchase us for his own.
The beloved of God, His most precious son, gave his life to purchase a bride, a beloved for himself. CHRIST LOVES THE CHURCH MOST PASSIONATELY!!!
That is the mystery of the ages. There is now no Jew, no Gentile. There is only the bride! Of two peoples God made one, one bride! One beloved!
Brethren let us now love one another, even as Christ loved the church and gave himself for her! Passionately! let us love one another. Preferring one another in love.... may the Lord bless you with peace and grace as you bask in the light of his great love!
You who have been called according to His purposes, washed by the sanctifing water of his words, the words that speak to us of his great love. It is to you I write.
Consider that great love epic that is recorded in our scriptures. That work called the Song of Solomon. What a beautiful piece of erotic literature.
"What?" you ask, "Erotic literature in the Bible?"
"Yes," I answer, "Erotic literature in our Bible, God's Word."
We have a piece of most wonderful and unfilthy erotic literature in our Bible. And you trust your children with it and allow them to read it all they want to, don't you? The Song of Solomon has many erotic images in it. True, and pure images. Only the sinful and vulgar make of it something impure and vulgar.
I challenge you married couples to read it outloud to each other. Send the children off to grandma's or aunties house. Go into your bedroom, shut the door and husbands read the Solomons part, while looking your wife in her eyes. Think of her as Solomon thought of his new bride. Wives, read the bride's part and look into your husband's eyes and think of him as the bride did of Solomon. You will find the undefiled eroticism of this writing.
Now, I give you a mystery. This piece is about Christ and the church!
Think about that for a minute or two. Meditate upon it for a week or a month and you will see it!
Christ has the same passionate love for his bride as Solomon did for his. CHRIST LOVES THE CHURCH, PASSIONATELY! I can't write that loud enough!
Christ loves the sight of her. Loves the sound of her voice. Loves the scent of her. Loves her body. Loves her soul. Loves her spirit.
Before you get away from me, realize that no one of us individually are the church. This is not about you and Jesus. It is about US and JESUS. It takes a group of us to express the bride of Christ. In any given locality, any given fellowship of believers, any given local church, you find the bride of Christ. And Jesus loves you passionately!
With all our problems, with all our faults, with all our rebellious ways. Jesus passionately loves the church!
He pursues her, her gifts her with so many great blessings, all to win her! He gave all, even to his very life's blood to win her. In fact his death, was a part of the bride price that Jesus to obtain his bride.
Jesus could not enter into the bridle chamber with his perfect bride, until that terrible price was paid. And he paid it most willingly. For the thought of the prize laid before him, he sacrificed his own life to redeem his bride, to purchase us for his own.
The beloved of God, His most precious son, gave his life to purchase a bride, a beloved for himself. CHRIST LOVES THE CHURCH MOST PASSIONATELY!!!
That is the mystery of the ages. There is now no Jew, no Gentile. There is only the bride! Of two peoples God made one, one bride! One beloved!
Brethren let us now love one another, even as Christ loved the church and gave himself for her! Passionately! let us love one another. Preferring one another in love.... may the Lord bless you with peace and grace as you bask in the light of his great love!
The Great Eternal Romance
The Great Romance, an Eternal Story
By Kent Secor, with respects to Devern Fromke and Frank Viola and many others.
There has been a story that caught my attention for the first time about 30 some years ago. Though other ideas and stories have carried my attention away from time to time I keep getting drawn back to this one.
At times I could only catch a small window sized glimpse of it, other times it was as though someone opened the whole horizon to me. It is more breathtaking then the most beautful of sun rises or sun sets. More stunning then the most gorgeous of brides. More precious then the most precious of babies.
It begins in eternity past. If eternity can have a past, being a state of being without any measure of time. But for our story it was in eternity past.
There is only one being there, God, who would reveal himself to a man of a nation as I who AM!
God was alone with himself. But not alone, for he had a beloved with him. Yet God was alone and desired a mate. God at the core of his being is a lover, so much so that it is truth to say that God is love itself. As the great eternal lover he had a desire, one to love. God is the beloved, and as the beloved desired with the greatest depth of passion the lover.
Now we spring forward. Time now is. Time a part of the creation that God created for the express purpose of placing his loved one in.
We see a garden, we see God creating the first man, Adam. Adam made in the image of God the beloved. Adam made to love God and another. God places man, Adam into the perfect garden he created in the perfect world he created.
Adam sees all the animals that God created. God calls them all to pass before the king of the world, and asks Adam to name them. Each pair of animals passes before God and Adam. Adam names each one, and sees that each one has a mate. He comes to know that he alone of all the creatures of creation is alone. He has no "other" to know, to love.
God sees that Adam knows, and tells Adam, "It is not good for you, man, to be alone." God places Adam into a great sleep, opens up his side, removes a rib, and from that rib fashions Adam a mate. This first woman is also Adam. Together they form the first man, "male and female created He (God) them, and He called them Adam."
The first created lover, has his beloved. She is bone of his bone, flesh of his flesh. He is completely enraptured with her. His full desire is for her alone. He has no eyes for any other, for there is no other to look at. And if there were and when there will be, he still will want her and her alone.
She is the crowning acheivement of all of God's creation. Last made and most beautiful of all. Next to Adam, the perfect created man, she shines like a jewel. She is Adam's glory, shining forth with grace and beauty. Truth, intelligence, love, beauty, all are hers. And she is completely enraptured and in love with her mate, Adam. She has only eyes for him
They drink in each other. They smell each other. They taste each other and experience each other in the deepest depths of passion.
And God looked upon them and said "IT IS GOOD"!
I tell you a mystery brethren, I speak here not about man and wife, but about Christ and the church.
Christ is the second Adam. He came into the world to redeem his bride. To set her free, to empower her to be his bride. And his bride is radiant to him. To him his bride is worth his everything, even his own life. That is the bride price that Christ paid, even his own blood.
Brethren, we are that bride. You are a member of her, if you belong to Christ and not just some religious organization. And he is totally, deeply, passionately in love with us all.
The Great Eternal Romance was all about God giving his beloved Son a bride. He is still forming that bride. Each new believer helps to form her.
More later...
By Kent Secor, with respects to Devern Fromke and Frank Viola and many others.
There has been a story that caught my attention for the first time about 30 some years ago. Though other ideas and stories have carried my attention away from time to time I keep getting drawn back to this one.
At times I could only catch a small window sized glimpse of it, other times it was as though someone opened the whole horizon to me. It is more breathtaking then the most beautful of sun rises or sun sets. More stunning then the most gorgeous of brides. More precious then the most precious of babies.
It begins in eternity past. If eternity can have a past, being a state of being without any measure of time. But for our story it was in eternity past.
There is only one being there, God, who would reveal himself to a man of a nation as I who AM!
God was alone with himself. But not alone, for he had a beloved with him. Yet God was alone and desired a mate. God at the core of his being is a lover, so much so that it is truth to say that God is love itself. As the great eternal lover he had a desire, one to love. God is the beloved, and as the beloved desired with the greatest depth of passion the lover.
Now we spring forward. Time now is. Time a part of the creation that God created for the express purpose of placing his loved one in.
We see a garden, we see God creating the first man, Adam. Adam made in the image of God the beloved. Adam made to love God and another. God places man, Adam into the perfect garden he created in the perfect world he created.
Adam sees all the animals that God created. God calls them all to pass before the king of the world, and asks Adam to name them. Each pair of animals passes before God and Adam. Adam names each one, and sees that each one has a mate. He comes to know that he alone of all the creatures of creation is alone. He has no "other" to know, to love.
God sees that Adam knows, and tells Adam, "It is not good for you, man, to be alone." God places Adam into a great sleep, opens up his side, removes a rib, and from that rib fashions Adam a mate. This first woman is also Adam. Together they form the first man, "male and female created He (God) them, and He called them Adam."
The first created lover, has his beloved. She is bone of his bone, flesh of his flesh. He is completely enraptured with her. His full desire is for her alone. He has no eyes for any other, for there is no other to look at. And if there were and when there will be, he still will want her and her alone.
She is the crowning acheivement of all of God's creation. Last made and most beautiful of all. Next to Adam, the perfect created man, she shines like a jewel. She is Adam's glory, shining forth with grace and beauty. Truth, intelligence, love, beauty, all are hers. And she is completely enraptured and in love with her mate, Adam. She has only eyes for him
They drink in each other. They smell each other. They taste each other and experience each other in the deepest depths of passion.
And God looked upon them and said "IT IS GOOD"!
I tell you a mystery brethren, I speak here not about man and wife, but about Christ and the church.
Christ is the second Adam. He came into the world to redeem his bride. To set her free, to empower her to be his bride. And his bride is radiant to him. To him his bride is worth his everything, even his own life. That is the bride price that Christ paid, even his own blood.
Brethren, we are that bride. You are a member of her, if you belong to Christ and not just some religious organization. And he is totally, deeply, passionately in love with us all.
The Great Eternal Romance was all about God giving his beloved Son a bride. He is still forming that bride. Each new believer helps to form her.
More later...
Saturday, February 07, 2009
A Solution for these Depressive Times.
A meditation on Psalm 77.
In these difficult times men's hearts are failing them for fear. Fear of losing their jobs, fear of noo finding a job, fear of losing their homes, fear of being unable to support their families.
Many are in depression over their situation. The writer of Psalm 77, Asaph, was also depressed over his situation. We can find the same solution to our depressive mood today as he did in his day.
Psalm 77 (NIV)
For the director of music. For Jeduthun. Of Asaph. A psalm.
1 I cried out to God for help;
I cried out to God to hear me.
2 When I was in distress, I sought the Lord;
at night I stretched out untiring hands
and my soul refused to be comforted.
3 I remembered you, O God, and I groaned;
I mused, and my spirit grew faint.
Selah
4 You kept my eyes from closing;
I was too troubled to speak.
5 I thought about the former days,
the years of long ago;
6 I remembered my songs in the night.
My heart mused and my spirit inquired:
7 "Will the Lord reject forever?
Will he never show his favor again?
8 Has his unfailing love vanished forever?
Has his promise failed for all time?
9 Has God forgotten to be merciful?
Has he in anger withheld his compassion?"
Selah
10 Then I thought, "To this I will appeal:
the years of the right hand of the Most High."
11 I will remember the deeds of the LORD;
yes, I will remember your miracles of long ago.
12 I will meditate on all your works
and consider all your mighty deeds.
13 Your ways, O God, are holy.
What god is so great as our God?
14 You are the God who performs miracles;
you display your power among the peoples.
15 With your mighty arm you redeemed your people,
the descendants of Jacob and Joseph.
Selah
16 The waters saw you, O God,
the waters saw you and writhed;
the very depths were convulsed.
17 The clouds poured down water,
the skies resounded with thunder;
your arrows flashed back and forth.
18 Your thunder was heard in the whirlwind,
your lightning lit up the world;
the earth trembled and quaked.
19 Your path led through the sea,
your way through the mighty waters,
though your footprints were not seen.
20 You led your people like a flock
by the hand of Moses and Aaron.
Look at the Asaph's condition in his situation. He was "in distress...my soul refused to be comforted...I mused, and my spirit grew faint...I was too troubled to speak."
Today we might term this a low level depression. Consider that this righteous soul was calling to God for help, he was seeking the Lord. Yet as he remembered, he "groaned; I mused in my spirit and grew faint." This is not a statement of faith, but of doubt. He is considering his circumstances and groaning over them, he calls out to God in this doubt.
He writes, "Where are you God? Will you reject me forever? Will you never show your favor again? Has your unfailing love vanished forever? Has your promise failed? Are you no longer merciful? Are you so angry at me that you have withheld your compassion from me?"
Asaph in the midst of his depressive groaning can only see his troubles and has turned from faith in God. His thoughts are on the "former days, the years long ago; I remember my songs in the night." He was thinking about the "good ole days" of the past comparing them to the present " bad days".
Many today are doing the same thing. We think that in former days we had jobs, we had a secure mortgage, we were assured our company would continue to employ us, not down size and lay us off, and we partied, singing our songs of joy into the night. We think on those days and compare them to today and our spirits grow faint within us. We cry out to the Lord, "Why me God? Why did you allow me to lose my job? Why God, is my house being foreclosed on? Why is my company downsizing? Where are you God in all my distress?
Asaph finally finds the solution to his depressive mood. "Then I thought, to this I will appeal." He is kind of saying to himself, "Wait! Stop this foolish musing and groaning! I have an appeal, a hope, a light at the end of this dark tunnel!"
What was the hope of Asaph? The goodness and great deeds of the Lord.
"To this I will appeal: the years of the right hand of the Most High." The "right hand of the Lord" or Most High, is used to express the goodness and blessings of God. Asaph goes on to remember the former days when the Lord did great miracles for Israel.
"I will remember the deeds of the Lord; yes, I will remember your miracles of long ago. I will meditate on all your works and consider all your mighty deeds."
Now Asaph is thinking in faith. He has stopped musing over his present situation and comparing it to the good ole days. Now he is thinking of the faithful deeds of the Lord.
Instead of crying out, "Will the Lord reject forever?" He says, "Your ways, O God, are holy. What god is so great as our God? You are the God who performs miracles; you display your power among the peoples, the descendants of Jacob and Joseph."
Asaph goes on to recount the display of God's great power in the parting of the Red Sea, and how God led Israel through the Sea as a shepherd leads his flock.
Let me recommend this same solution to us today. Instead of musing over our present difficulties, let us remember the might deeds and miracles of our Lord. Let us trust in Him who has shown Himself faithful in the past. Instead of meditating on our problems, let us meditate on all of God's works.
Meditate on God delivering Israel out of four hundred years of bondage in Egypt. Meditate on God's great deeds as recorded in all the history of Israel. Consider that if God kept them in all their difficulties, he can keep us in these present difficult times.
Let us meditate on the miracles of Christ and his great works of redemption for us.
Let us meditate on the great works of God in our own lives and those we know. Let us consider that as God has carried us through our own past difficulties, He will carry us through these present times as well.
This is a good spiritual discipline, an exercise that will build our faith in God and can relieve our depressive mood. When we think on our present difficulties, let us remind ourselves of the goodness of God and trust in Him.
By meditating on the miracles and mighty deeds of God, we will better be able to face these days, with a strong faithful trust in God, rather than depressive musings.
May the Lord bless you and keep you in peace in your inward man, and pour out his grace on you that you may trust Him in all your ways.
In these difficult times men's hearts are failing them for fear. Fear of losing their jobs, fear of noo finding a job, fear of losing their homes, fear of being unable to support their families.
Many are in depression over their situation. The writer of Psalm 77, Asaph, was also depressed over his situation. We can find the same solution to our depressive mood today as he did in his day.
Psalm 77 (NIV)
For the director of music. For Jeduthun. Of Asaph. A psalm.
1 I cried out to God for help;
I cried out to God to hear me.
2 When I was in distress, I sought the Lord;
at night I stretched out untiring hands
and my soul refused to be comforted.
3 I remembered you, O God, and I groaned;
I mused, and my spirit grew faint.
Selah
4 You kept my eyes from closing;
I was too troubled to speak.
5 I thought about the former days,
the years of long ago;
6 I remembered my songs in the night.
My heart mused and my spirit inquired:
7 "Will the Lord reject forever?
Will he never show his favor again?
8 Has his unfailing love vanished forever?
Has his promise failed for all time?
9 Has God forgotten to be merciful?
Has he in anger withheld his compassion?"
Selah
10 Then I thought, "To this I will appeal:
the years of the right hand of the Most High."
11 I will remember the deeds of the LORD;
yes, I will remember your miracles of long ago.
12 I will meditate on all your works
and consider all your mighty deeds.
13 Your ways, O God, are holy.
What god is so great as our God?
14 You are the God who performs miracles;
you display your power among the peoples.
15 With your mighty arm you redeemed your people,
the descendants of Jacob and Joseph.
Selah
16 The waters saw you, O God,
the waters saw you and writhed;
the very depths were convulsed.
17 The clouds poured down water,
the skies resounded with thunder;
your arrows flashed back and forth.
18 Your thunder was heard in the whirlwind,
your lightning lit up the world;
the earth trembled and quaked.
19 Your path led through the sea,
your way through the mighty waters,
though your footprints were not seen.
20 You led your people like a flock
by the hand of Moses and Aaron.
Look at the Asaph's condition in his situation. He was "in distress...my soul refused to be comforted...I mused, and my spirit grew faint...I was too troubled to speak."
Today we might term this a low level depression. Consider that this righteous soul was calling to God for help, he was seeking the Lord. Yet as he remembered, he "groaned; I mused in my spirit and grew faint." This is not a statement of faith, but of doubt. He is considering his circumstances and groaning over them, he calls out to God in this doubt.
He writes, "Where are you God? Will you reject me forever? Will you never show your favor again? Has your unfailing love vanished forever? Has your promise failed? Are you no longer merciful? Are you so angry at me that you have withheld your compassion from me?"
Asaph in the midst of his depressive groaning can only see his troubles and has turned from faith in God. His thoughts are on the "former days, the years long ago; I remember my songs in the night." He was thinking about the "good ole days" of the past comparing them to the present " bad days".
Many today are doing the same thing. We think that in former days we had jobs, we had a secure mortgage, we were assured our company would continue to employ us, not down size and lay us off, and we partied, singing our songs of joy into the night. We think on those days and compare them to today and our spirits grow faint within us. We cry out to the Lord, "Why me God? Why did you allow me to lose my job? Why God, is my house being foreclosed on? Why is my company downsizing? Where are you God in all my distress?
Asaph finally finds the solution to his depressive mood. "Then I thought, to this I will appeal." He is kind of saying to himself, "Wait! Stop this foolish musing and groaning! I have an appeal, a hope, a light at the end of this dark tunnel!"
What was the hope of Asaph? The goodness and great deeds of the Lord.
"To this I will appeal: the years of the right hand of the Most High." The "right hand of the Lord" or Most High, is used to express the goodness and blessings of God. Asaph goes on to remember the former days when the Lord did great miracles for Israel.
"I will remember the deeds of the Lord; yes, I will remember your miracles of long ago. I will meditate on all your works and consider all your mighty deeds."
Now Asaph is thinking in faith. He has stopped musing over his present situation and comparing it to the good ole days. Now he is thinking of the faithful deeds of the Lord.
Instead of crying out, "Will the Lord reject forever?" He says, "Your ways, O God, are holy. What god is so great as our God? You are the God who performs miracles; you display your power among the peoples, the descendants of Jacob and Joseph."
Asaph goes on to recount the display of God's great power in the parting of the Red Sea, and how God led Israel through the Sea as a shepherd leads his flock.
Let me recommend this same solution to us today. Instead of musing over our present difficulties, let us remember the might deeds and miracles of our Lord. Let us trust in Him who has shown Himself faithful in the past. Instead of meditating on our problems, let us meditate on all of God's works.
Meditate on God delivering Israel out of four hundred years of bondage in Egypt. Meditate on God's great deeds as recorded in all the history of Israel. Consider that if God kept them in all their difficulties, he can keep us in these present difficult times.
Let us meditate on the miracles of Christ and his great works of redemption for us.
Let us meditate on the great works of God in our own lives and those we know. Let us consider that as God has carried us through our own past difficulties, He will carry us through these present times as well.
This is a good spiritual discipline, an exercise that will build our faith in God and can relieve our depressive mood. When we think on our present difficulties, let us remind ourselves of the goodness of God and trust in Him.
By meditating on the miracles and mighty deeds of God, we will better be able to face these days, with a strong faithful trust in God, rather than depressive musings.
May the Lord bless you and keep you in peace in your inward man, and pour out his grace on you that you may trust Him in all your ways.
Monday, September 22, 2008
Food Ministry
At present I am jobless and homeless.
The depression in this area is tremendous. Most construction work has been shut down for two years. Lay offs are a weekly affair, as construction jobs are finished.
Finances to start new jobs are still hard to come by.
Many are without work, or have only one spouse working supporting the family, where previously they had both spouses working. Families that were barely surviving on two incomes, now must exist on one.
The welfare and food stamp benefits are being stretched to its limits. The charity of believers is relied upon now more than before.
We are called to help "...the least of these my brethren." by Jesus, and all true believers are stepping up to the plate and helping everyone that they can. We are learning to support one another, and share all good things with each other. In the midst of hard times, the grace of God is flowing, building relationships in the Kingdom for His Glory.
I have been with out a regular job since last December. Because of this I have just signed up for food stamps. In the process of looking at food sources in my area I found Angel Food Ministries.
Angel Food supplies monthly food boxes which are available for purchase. The main package costs $30 and has first quality food that is worth over twice that amount. They also provide additional packages for about $21, that can be combined with the main package.
This service is available to all. No qualification is necessary. Ordering and distribution is handled by local volunteers, Churches and Civic groups. Payment is made up front when ordering.
They take cash and food stamps as payment. So this can really help those on food stamps stretch their benefits.
This is a wonderful way to stretch your own food dollars, and be better able to help those in need of food.
Web site is : Angel Food Ministries
The depression in this area is tremendous. Most construction work has been shut down for two years. Lay offs are a weekly affair, as construction jobs are finished.
Finances to start new jobs are still hard to come by.
Many are without work, or have only one spouse working supporting the family, where previously they had both spouses working. Families that were barely surviving on two incomes, now must exist on one.
The welfare and food stamp benefits are being stretched to its limits. The charity of believers is relied upon now more than before.
We are called to help "...the least of these my brethren." by Jesus, and all true believers are stepping up to the plate and helping everyone that they can. We are learning to support one another, and share all good things with each other. In the midst of hard times, the grace of God is flowing, building relationships in the Kingdom for His Glory.
I have been with out a regular job since last December. Because of this I have just signed up for food stamps. In the process of looking at food sources in my area I found Angel Food Ministries.
Angel Food supplies monthly food boxes which are available for purchase. The main package costs $30 and has first quality food that is worth over twice that amount. They also provide additional packages for about $21, that can be combined with the main package.
This service is available to all. No qualification is necessary. Ordering and distribution is handled by local volunteers, Churches and Civic groups. Payment is made up front when ordering.
They take cash and food stamps as payment. So this can really help those on food stamps stretch their benefits.
This is a wonderful way to stretch your own food dollars, and be better able to help those in need of food.
Web site is : Angel Food Ministries
Sunday, September 21, 2008
How to Start a House Church: Step 1
I found this old article on the web doing a google of me, and thought I'd post it again...
HOW TO START A HOUSE CHURCH
STEP ONE
RETURN TO YOUR FIRST LOVE
STEP ONE
RETURN TO YOUR FIRST LOVE
by Kent Secor
One of the first things I think you need to consider is why you want to be in a HC? Why did you leave the last church you were part of? Many when they first leave an Institutional Church setting have many issues to deal with. One of the most important is they have spent a lot of time with their attention on programs rather than relationships. Often they have left their first love, Jesus, to be involved with programs. It is so easy to be busy in meetings and programs. To be more concerned with if the carpets are cleaned in the Church building, then if your heart is clean before the Lord.
We spent so many Sundays showing up for meetings in our Sunday best with our Sunday smiles on. We told everyone the same lie week after week, that every thing is going great, that the Lord is wonderful to me. No matter how bad we felt, we just didn't want to be honest and risk the looks and comments we would get if we told people the truth.
What you are looking to be involved in is harder than anything you may have ever been involved with in your whole Christian life. It will involve sacrifices you have never had to make before. It will be the hardest thing you have ever done, and the most rewarding. There will be those who will question your sincerity, will think you are in serious rebellion to the Lord, will accuse you and warn you of becoming a cult. Some may shun you in hopes of bringing you back to the correct walk in the Lord. Some will shun you afraid to be drug into the rebellion you are walking in. Some will come to you just as hurt and confused as you are now.
You may be going through a process many call a "wilderness" experience. You think that you may have lost your relationship with God. You miss the feelings of God's presence you felt in the Worship Services. The truth is you may have well left your first love because of those "Worship Services" replacing time alone with Him for singing and other activities.
If you are going through a dry time of the soul, a wilderness experience, you may not be ready for relationships with other believers. Spend this time seeking Him who first called you, decide that nothing else matters but Him and knowing Him. Think on Him, pray without ceasing. As you get humble before Him, really humble without all the religious fanfare, you will find Him, you will sense His presence once again. The light of His relationship with you will shine forth bright as the sun once again. I know, I've been down that road, I had been lost in the darkness of my own wilderness.
Jesus said to the Church in Revelations 2:4, 5 "But I hold against you that you have given up your first love. Therefore, call to mind from what you have fallen, and repent and practice what you did previously; or else if you do not repent, I shall come to you and remove the lampstand from it's place."
And Revelations 3:20 "Behold I stand at the door and knock. If anyone listens to My voice and opens the door, I shall come in to him and dine with him and he with Me." (both from the New
The first step is to return to your First Love, Jesus, who loved you first and called you out of darkness and translated you into His kingdom of light.
Wednesday, September 17, 2008
Judgment starts with the house of God
This study has been percolating in me for many years now. The attack on America of 911 brought it into focus. I have discussed the idea of God's judgment with a few people, now is the time to share it to all who will listen. I don't know if it is prophetic or just Holy Spirit taught truth.
Either way if I and others are correct we as a nation are up the proverbial creek and the paddle has long been lost. It's time to cry out to the only one who can help us.
Read the study here, Judgment starts with the house of God.
Either way if I and others are correct we as a nation are up the proverbial creek and the paddle has long been lost. It's time to cry out to the only one who can help us.
Read the study here, Judgment starts with the house of God.
Evangelism are we doing it right?
I've been part of the evangelical church since my rebirth into the Kingdom of Christ/God. I fully understand that to enter into the redemptive relationship with God in Christ is one that involves the work of the Holy Spirit and of man in cooperation.
Predestination or Free will?
I do not hold to the extreme Calvanistic view that some are predestined to be saved and others are not. I read too much in the NT about the entering into redemption being of one making the choice to submit to God for redemption, or free will.
I also see that within the concept of the sovereignity of God that even if we really don't have free-will in this area, that God's choice for us is hid in the mystery of God's knowledge within eternity and we are not privy to that information.
This whole debate in the church becomes one of division rather than encouragement to evangelize or live our lives in Christ. And as Paul points out to the Corinthian assembly, division of the body of Christ is sin.
True Evangelism is based on a Loving Community.
One of my observations regarding the foundation of evangelism is that it must be based on a loving community of believers.
Jesus taught the disciples a new command, John13:34 "A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. 35 By this all men will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another."
Jesus taught that the foundation of our communnities is love. Here he shows that the world, all men, would recognize that we follow Christ by our love for one another.
We have alot of ideas as to what the church is. It is very popular to think of the church as being the universal body of Christ, encompassing all beleivers, every where all around the world, as well as the living and the dead. This idea is meantioned in the NT, yet it is not the main way the church (Greek word is ekklesia, literally meaning an assembly of called out ones) is defined. The NT is mostly discussing the local assembly. The brothers and sisters we are in direct fellowship with.
The basis of our local assembly life is to live out the love for one another. In doing a study of the NT to understand what they did for meetings I found very little about meetings, in fact only one passage of teaching, and that was corrective in nature, 1Cor 11-14. The major teaching regarding assembly life is about loving one another in real practical ways. (If you would like to read my study, please email me as it is comprehensive and too long to post in this format.)
Jesus is not talking about the church universal in this reference. He is talking about the local group of believers that you and I fellowship with on a normal basis, daily, weekly.
Jesus says that the world will recognize that we follow Him by the way we love those we are in relationship with.
This is one reason that division in the Body of Christ is so sinful. For us to be divided over doctrine or practice to the point that we can't love one another prevents those outside the body of Christ from recognizing that we are Jesus' disciples. Remember this love is practical, not just making statements that we love all believers. We must show it in serving one another, even considering the needs of another believer as being more important than our own.
The world is not fooled by our love statements. They want, they need us to show them the money. To put feet to our statements. To work to show ourselves approved of God by actively, practically loving one another.
The world is not impressed with our temples made to house God. They want love.
The world is not impressed with our programs. They want loving relationships.
The world is not impressed with our Christmas or Easter extravaganzes. They want daily loving relationships.
The world is not impressed with our books, DVDs, tv programs. They desperately need to know that we really, really believe what we say. That we are willing to die for our beliefs, and really do walk them out in love for each other.
Look at all the literature and self help programs, helping people learn how to love. Look at all the misguided attempts of men to find love. Dating services, hook up places, meet markets of all types from bars to coffee shops to book stores. They want love....
For any of our evangelism to be fruitful it must be founded on real, practical loving relationships with one another that spill over to all our neighbors. The division of the body of Christ into unloving denominations prevents many from seeing Christ, from being drawn in by His love.
Predestination or Free will?
I do not hold to the extreme Calvanistic view that some are predestined to be saved and others are not. I read too much in the NT about the entering into redemption being of one making the choice to submit to God for redemption, or free will.
I also see that within the concept of the sovereignity of God that even if we really don't have free-will in this area, that God's choice for us is hid in the mystery of God's knowledge within eternity and we are not privy to that information.
This whole debate in the church becomes one of division rather than encouragement to evangelize or live our lives in Christ. And as Paul points out to the Corinthian assembly, division of the body of Christ is sin.
True Evangelism is based on a Loving Community.
One of my observations regarding the foundation of evangelism is that it must be based on a loving community of believers.
Jesus taught the disciples a new command, John13:34 "A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. 35 By this all men will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another."
Jesus taught that the foundation of our communnities is love. Here he shows that the world, all men, would recognize that we follow Christ by our love for one another.
We have alot of ideas as to what the church is. It is very popular to think of the church as being the universal body of Christ, encompassing all beleivers, every where all around the world, as well as the living and the dead. This idea is meantioned in the NT, yet it is not the main way the church (Greek word is ekklesia, literally meaning an assembly of called out ones) is defined. The NT is mostly discussing the local assembly. The brothers and sisters we are in direct fellowship with.
The basis of our local assembly life is to live out the love for one another. In doing a study of the NT to understand what they did for meetings I found very little about meetings, in fact only one passage of teaching, and that was corrective in nature, 1Cor 11-14. The major teaching regarding assembly life is about loving one another in real practical ways. (If you would like to read my study, please email me as it is comprehensive and too long to post in this format.)
Jesus is not talking about the church universal in this reference. He is talking about the local group of believers that you and I fellowship with on a normal basis, daily, weekly.
Jesus says that the world will recognize that we follow Him by the way we love those we are in relationship with.
This is one reason that division in the Body of Christ is so sinful. For us to be divided over doctrine or practice to the point that we can't love one another prevents those outside the body of Christ from recognizing that we are Jesus' disciples. Remember this love is practical, not just making statements that we love all believers. We must show it in serving one another, even considering the needs of another believer as being more important than our own.
The world is not fooled by our love statements. They want, they need us to show them the money. To put feet to our statements. To work to show ourselves approved of God by actively, practically loving one another.
The world is not impressed with our temples made to house God. They want love.
The world is not impressed with our programs. They want loving relationships.
The world is not impressed with our Christmas or Easter extravaganzes. They want daily loving relationships.
The world is not impressed with our books, DVDs, tv programs. They desperately need to know that we really, really believe what we say. That we are willing to die for our beliefs, and really do walk them out in love for each other.
Look at all the literature and self help programs, helping people learn how to love. Look at all the misguided attempts of men to find love. Dating services, hook up places, meet markets of all types from bars to coffee shops to book stores. They want love....
For any of our evangelism to be fruitful it must be founded on real, practical loving relationships with one another that spill over to all our neighbors. The division of the body of Christ into unloving denominations prevents many from seeing Christ, from being drawn in by His love.
Wednesday, February 28, 2007
Kingdom of God, Heaven, Christ
Hi all,
Welcome to my blog....you must be bored....lol
I am starting a study on the Kingdom. In the NT we have different terms used with the word Kingdom...kingdom of Heaven, kingdom of God, kingdom of Christ....we could also talk about the kingdom of Israel or David, but in NT times that kingdom was subjegated to the Roman Empire.
I thought that I would post on my blog here as I did my study.
The first thing I do when I start a topic study like this is to go to the Greek helps I have. Then go to the Everyman's Greek Concordance to look up similar passages.
In the Vine's article on kingdom, he writes that of the three main NT terms, Kingdom of God is the over all term. It applies to all the universe at it's widest context. In particular all those who submit to God as ruler, king over their lives are in the kingdom of God., therefor to all believers in God.
The kingdom of heaven, Vine's says, is in reference to the physical nation of Israel only.
And the kingdom of Christ to those who follow Christ alone.
I will post that article next time.
Welcome to my blog....you must be bored....lol
I am starting a study on the Kingdom. In the NT we have different terms used with the word Kingdom...kingdom of Heaven, kingdom of God, kingdom of Christ....we could also talk about the kingdom of Israel or David, but in NT times that kingdom was subjegated to the Roman Empire.
I thought that I would post on my blog here as I did my study.
The first thing I do when I start a topic study like this is to go to the Greek helps I have. Then go to the Everyman's Greek Concordance to look up similar passages.
In the Vine's article on kingdom, he writes that of the three main NT terms, Kingdom of God is the over all term. It applies to all the universe at it's widest context. In particular all those who submit to God as ruler, king over their lives are in the kingdom of God., therefor to all believers in God.
The kingdom of heaven, Vine's says, is in reference to the physical nation of Israel only.
And the kingdom of Christ to those who follow Christ alone.
I will post that article next time.
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